The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[Draco18s]

...

Guys, we're turning into JackPoint. Seriously.

Or.... Shadowtalk? ;P

[ShimmerGeek]

Well, three countries of SoLA are already out there. It really would be nice seeing it (mostly) complete – and the final word was that this won't happen officially.

Sorry, SoLA?

[rumanchu]

Sorry, SoLA?

I believe that it stands for Shadows of Latin America.

[Prime Mover]

So much good stuff in the pipeline, keeping fingers crossed. SoLA still causing a ruckus imagine if SR license lapsed with a dozen good projects in limbo....

[BishopMcQ]

That is awesome to hear about the Almanac and Corp Guide. Is the second Dawn of the Artifacts supplement still set to be printed fairly soon? (Since I noticed a PDF up)

ShimmerGeek - Dawn of the Artifacts - Midnight has been printed already and I believe is set to have a street date of March 22. There are several pre-packaged orders in the office waiting to be mailed.

[ShimmerGeek]

ShimmerGeek - Dawn of the Artifacts - Midnight has been printed already and I believe is set to have a street date of March 22. There are several pre-packaged orders in the office waiting to be mailed.

Ah that's great, thank you very much (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I appreciate it!

[tete]

My 2 cents

As long as Catalyst did nothing to piss off Tops and Tops got there money they will probably keep the license. If payment is delayed Tops can renegotiate and if Catalyst has been good about payments up to this point they would rather renegotiate on a sure thing than go to an unknown.

baring that
Weisman may have a good shot at buying it back at a good price. I think he would be interested if the price is right and the whole experience with Catalyst may sour Tops to staying in the RPG buisness.

White-Wolf could bid but honestly most of the guys at White-Wolf now had nothing to do with Shadowrun and now that they merged with CCP you have to see if CCP really wants to get another RPG or not. I think while it could happen its pretty unlikely it will go this way.

Steve Jackson is more likely to license the product from Tops or give Catalyst a loan in exchange for converting their stuff to GURPS.

Cubical 7, Mongoose, Etc the price would have to be right. I think in this case its more likely Weisman gets it back because he an Tops already have a working relationship.

WOTC. Never happen, Hasbro is already wondering what to do with this D&D thing. The minis game is being merged into Heroscape and they let Star Wars go. I wouldnt be surprised if you see them trying to offload D&D at some point. From their point of view RPG are not profitable.

[Warlordtheft]

From the tone both have taken, it sounds like resuming business with Catalyst is not completely out of the question, as long as CGL gets its house in order quickly.

From the sounds of it, that is precisely why they decided to do an accounting review of their books. Sounds like they were having a good year with the phenomenal sales of the 20th annaversery edition of SR and decided that with this they should do a review of the books (or something wasn't adding up right). I assume Catalyst is a either Sub chapter S company, or a Partnership with limited liability as their public statement refers to multiple owners. As such, they do not have to do such reviews for tax or investor reasons. SHould they do it? That depends on how much everyone involved in the company trusts each other.


In any event, it seems that they are already planning to address the freelancers that have not been paid. I asked this question, since freelancers are what drive the SR universe in the stickied thread and this was catalyst's response.

Freelancers are supposed to be getting statements shortly that would set out what they are owed and, from what I have heard, establish a payment schedule.

Jason H.

[emouse]

Other reasons for the review could be a response to the employees who did leave, as the CGL statement implies that what was discovered did have some impact (stress caused) in their departure. Or it could have been the upcoming license renewal, with the owners wanting to make sure things are in order and perhaps make a new pitch to Topps about buying the licenses.

Though... considering this has apparently been going on from the start, it makes me wonder about what would have happened if CGL had managed to make the deal for WizKids.

[krainboltgreene]

Irony: Shadowrun players offering to donate money to a corporation on news of internal corruption.

I hope it should be clear by now that the only people that should be given money are the freelancers (Even the ones I don't agree with).

[HappyDaze]

Irony: Shadowrun players offering to donate money to a corporation on news of internal corruption.

But you can bet it won't be in our internal reserve of 1980's dollars!

Let's now look at the fact that metaphorically shooting people in the face for money has fallout, and while all of the names listed in the front of the SR books are "faceless" to me (I've never met them), there's still a lot of attachment felt from some - or at least the pain that loss will trickle down in the form of lost/delayed products for the less sentimental. Perhaps this needs to make it into the game for those that want more realistic SR?

Speculations of Weisman pulling a nonosecond buyout are juicy. Wouldn't it be sweet if it happens and we find out the whole ordeal was arranged through his use of deniable assets? That would be pure SR awesomeness!

[ColdEquation]

I keep seeing Jordan Weisman's name cropping up; while I agree that it'd be great to have one of the originals back in control, has Mr. Weisman ever shown any interest at all in returning to Shadowrun? I mean, I've been followng Shadowrun since '92, but I'm not an "insider" by any stretch. For all I know, Weisman hates Shadowrun, and was glad to be free from it. Are there any credible statements or references to him wanting Shadowrun back?

If not, I hope Catalyst can keep making it. They've done alright by my reckoning, and I wouldn't mind seeing them keep going at it.

[Aaron]

I hope it should be clear by now that the only people that should be given money are the freelancers (Even the ones I don't agree with).

I'm 100% in favor of this idea! Let's set up a donation hotline. =i)

[tete]

Mr. Weisman ever shown any interest at all in returning to Shadowrun?

My 2nd hand knowledge is that Mr. Weisman is interested in any IP that will make a solid return. Mostly in the past he has a built his own IP and then sells it off. However if Tops was willing to let it go cheap you can bet there would be talks. I highly doubt he would get in a bidding war over the deal. The only way hes in a better position than say Cubical 7 is that he has worked with Tops before and that actually is worth quite a bit if offers were in a similar range. This isn't like WOTC buying D&D from TSR, he is not to my knowledge actively after regaining the IP, but if it were offered to him at a price he liked I believe he would take it.

[edit] I still think its more likely Tops will give Catalyst more time if needed for a marginal fee. As long as there is no bad blood between the companies theres no reason for Tops to kill a good working relationship.

[Mr. Man]

I keep seeing Jordan Weisman's name cropping up; while I agree that it'd be great to have one of the originals back in control, has Mr. Weisman ever shown any interest at all in returning to Shadowrun? I mean, I've been followng Shadowrun since '92, but I'm not an "insider" by any stretch. For all I know, Weisman hates Shadowrun, and was glad to be free from it. Are there any credible statements or references to him wanting Shadowrun back?

Weisman's company (Smith & Tinker) licensed the electronic Shadowrun and Mechwarrior rights from Microsoft in late 2007.

Then in this revealing article last year Weisman talked about how he regretted ever selling the rights and his goals for the properties:

"One of the motivations on licensing it back was to get it back on track and create a more cohensive home for it," Weisman explained, "so I'm working with Eisner and his people, and with Microsoft, and we're trying to do this in a much more cohesive fashion again."

Acquiring the Shadowrun tabletop rights would seem to fit right in with this cohesion.

Furthermore, Smith and Tinker is not solely an electronic gaming company. That they could branch out (or create a subsidiary to handle) tabletop RPGs seems thoroughly plausible. Especially when they are pulling down scores like this to fund brand new totally unproven ideas.

[Cheops]

Hmmm. That sucks for the freelancers. My best buddy recently untangled the snafu at the, now dissolved, game company he formed and it has been tough. Situation is eerily similar -- missing sales at cons, company money being used for personal stuff (in this case rent), etc.

While I detest the way the rules worked out under CGL and 4th edition I loved a lot of the fluff material that they were producing.

Crafty Games, to echo an earlier poster, likely won't pick up Shadowrun. They just recently announced Spycraft 3.0 so I doubt that they'd be interested. I'm also not sure that RedBrick is the right fit either. Shadowrun needs a top or mid tier company, in terms of size, to be successful and grow. Regressing back to a fairly smallish company isn't the right thing to do. (No knock on RBL, those guys are great but they have a huge back-log of material as well)

I for one would buy a D&D Shadowrun. 4th edition is great if you just want an action packed session of killing stuff and getting loot. Pink Mohawk is often quite fun and D&D does it well. At its core it is also very rules light and easily adaptable.

I likely wouldn't touch it if WW got their hands on it. Unless Neph, Bodhi, HLS from Exalted (plus some other newer crop) and Jon Chung from the boards were allowed to have their way with it. Those guys are doing wonderful work fixing rules in Exalted. WW has always been plagued with being good books to read but shitty games.

[Draco18s]

I for one would buy a D&D Shadowrun. 4th edition is great if you just want an action packed session of killing stuff and getting loot. Pink Mohawk is often quite fun and D&D does it well. At its core it is also very rules light and easily adaptable.

That made me comprehend ShadowRun with classes and levels and it boggled my mind.

Though I do enjoy having the freeform ability to define my own class (what skills and such I have), I miss the concept of leveling up. ShadowRun RAW leaves it pitifully easy to start at the "best ever" and your only growth is sideways. But I love my current character and the fact that my only skill above a 2 is Spellcasting (even then I only have 7 dice). I like being able to go "I'm actually pretty good at this, but I can be SO much better in the future."

Edit:
I should stop abusing my signature.

[Synner667]

That made me comprehend ShadowRun with classes and levels and it boggled my mind.

Though I do enjoy having the freeform ability to define my own class (what skills and such I have), I miss the concept of leveling up. ShadowRun RAW leaves it pitifully easy to start at the "best ever" and your only growth is sideways. But I love my current character and the fact that my only skill above a 2 is Spellcasting (even then I only have 7 dice). I like being able to go "I'm actually pretty good at this, but I can be SO much better in the future."

Edit:
I should stop abusing my signature.

They pretty much did that with their urban fantasy/modern day rules [the name of the setting completely escapes me].

>shock<
Someone who actually wants a proper RPG, with character development and something more than gun/magic/gear obsession.

[IceKatze]

hi hi

With CGL hemorrhaging so many good people that made Shadowrun good, I'm not really certain I care for it to survive. The fear of something even worse is the only thing motivating me to keep buying Shadowrun books now. Indeed, what a mess. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

("Throw a grenade!"... "I can't, I can only do that once per day!")

[Jaid]

Other reasons for the review could be a response to the employees who did leave, as the CGL statement implies that what was discovered did have some impact (stress caused) in their departure. Or it could have been the upcoming license renewal, with the owners wanting to make sure things are in order and perhaps make a new pitch to Topps about buying the licenses.

Though... considering this has apparently been going on from the start, it makes me wonder about what would have happened if CGL had managed to make the deal for WizKids.

eh, the financial person who resigned (jennifer harding) has only been financial person for a very short time, as i recall.

it is much more likely, in my (admittedly rather uninformed) opinion is that she took over the financial end of things, started looking through, found something screwy, and said "hey, we should do a more thorough check of all our old books, because this looks a little fishy."

it also seems odd to me that we've got the official statement saying it was a great thing that the internal audit (which is basically what it was, afaict) was a great idea... and at the same time, their financial person is resigning (citing 'ethical' reasons), and they're acting like it's just a little mistake. which seems rather unlikely if frank's numbers are accurate (i don't imagine there's too many people who wouldn't notice they've been adding $2-300,000 a year to their income, assuming this has been happening almost from the start and frank's numbers are correct... would be even more money per year if it's a more recent development and frank's numbers are correct. though again, we don't know if frank's number is completely accurate anyways. note that CGL has only existed since 2007, afaict)

so, my speculation is that the three who resigned likely found something they didn't like (possibly found only because one of them had just recently started a job as the financial person), arranged to have a more thorough investigation done, didn't like the way the owners decided to handle the situation once there was clear proof of something wrong, and left (note: it is not exactly uncommon for whistleblowers to be unpopular with the people they're blowing the whistle on, for some unfathomable reason).

of course, that's just speculation based on rumors, and some fairly hefty assumption-making on my part... and i'm certainly no professional when it comes to this sort of thing. it's entirely possible that i'm *way* off. but that's what it looks like from my angle.

[Draco18s]

They pretty much did that with their urban fantasy/modern day rules [the name of the setting completely escapes me].

>shock<
Someone who actually wants a proper RPG, with character development and something more than gun/magic/gear obsession.

d20 modern?

Never played it.

But I think what would really do it for me is if the SR stat/skill rules were altered just slightly such that instead of 6 being the "highest possible in a stat/skill ever" (baring genetic aptitueds, etc) it was more like 12. Then your starting "one 6 or 2 fives, all else 4" means that at best you're only half as good (at a skill) as you potentially could be (baring genetic aptitueds, etc).

Edit:
An image as to why I should stop abusing my signature for those people using IE or not using UTF-8 text encoding.

[hobgoblin]

They pretty much did that with their urban fantasy/modern day rules [the name of the setting completely escapes me].

>shock<
Someone who actually wants a proper RPG, with character development and something more than gun/magic/gear obsession.

d20 modern. of one mixed in d20 future, cyberscape, urban arcana and dark matter, one would have a approximation of SR with the D20 rules (and the gnoll pimp still gets me smiling).

to bad they put the product line on ice before they got d20 supers out the door. It would probably build on the mutations rules in D20 future.

[Jaid]

d20 modern apocalypse could also provide rules that would be useful for the barrens.

[Kid Chameleon]

There will of course be lawsuits, and there are already people drawing up legal documents accusing Loren Coleman of having hired people to construct an extension on his house through the company as "freelance writers"

Heh. I was at the Colemans' house this fall and it was amazingly free of extensions.

[emouse]

eh, the financial person who resigned (jennifer harding) has only been financial person for a very short time, as i recall.

That definitely adds more possibilities as to why the audit was conducted, perhaps started by or because of the new bookkeeper.

It also lends a couple explanations for why she left. Either unhappy with the direction management was taking with the matter or concerned for how it might reflect on her professionally despite having no hand in what happened.