OK, as you may well have been able to surmise from release schedules, Catalyst Game Labs is in a bit of a financial pickle, and it is somewhat unlikely that they will retain the license to make Shadowrun products. This is not because Shadowrun hasn't been selling enough to cover expenses, but merely because a significant quantity of money is missing outright. Reliable sources put this figure at roughly $850,000. Which sounds like a lot, and it is. It is roughly 40% of Catalyst's entire sales for last year, missing over a three year period. There will of course be lawsuits, and there are already people drawing up legal documents accusing Loren Coleman of having hired people to construct an extension on his house through the company as "freelance writers" and somehow reporting an estimated $100,000 of convention sales as $6,000. Whether that is actually true or not is - of course - a matter for the courts to decide. And decide they presumably will.

But what that means for Catalyst as a company is pretty bad. It costs several dollars to print a book even when the pdfs are finished and ready for publication. A print run of say, 50,000 books (like the print run of Runner Havens) would cost somewhere between $150,000 and $250,000 to print and ship to distributors. And while it eventually sold to distributors at ~$15 a book (a total take home of $750,000), it did so over a period of three years, during which time they were paying interest on loans and paying for storage, and advertisement and so on and so forth. A book like that isn't actually taking home half a million in profits. Which is a bad thing, because it means that even if there was a complete book printed and ready to sell, even a total and rapid sell through would not pull the company out of the financial hole it is in - and the shortfall means that it does not have the cash on hand to start the ball rolling with a new major printing.

The tiny amount of drachmas that are left in the coffers are being used to print up tiny print runs of books that have sold through - another 3,000 books of Runner's Companion for example (~$15,000 to start up, maybe $30-40k towards paying creditors if it sells out). There simply is not the startup cash to bring upcoming books like the SR4 sixth world almanac or corporate guide forward. The writing is there, but the printing costs are not. Beyond that, the freelancers have not been paid, and some of them are withholding copyright until they are - meaning that even a tiny print run of these new materials is simply not possible.

Many SR writers are quitting, have already quit, or have handed in notices contingent on demands which - word on the street - will not be met. And CGL does not even own Shadowrun, it leases the intellectual property from Topps. It seems unlikely that they will be able to make their licensing payment when the contract comes up for renewal - in a couple of months. At that time, CGL will cease being able to print Shadowrun or Battletech materials (they would presumably keep the license to Cthulhutech and Eclipse Phase for at least a little while longer, because those are separate contracts).

So what does this mean for the future of Shadowrun? It probably means that someone else will create a company and start making Shadowrun again. After all, freelancers work for very little, and a well selling book can bring in tens of thousands of dollars in profits. $850,000 of embezzlement is seemingly enough to sink the company (whoever ended up with the credsticks), but I must point out that there was indeed eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars to steal, so Shadowrun is not - as a concept - insoluble. And I also point out that something similar happened to Shadowrun before. Indeed, twice before, as both FanPro and FASA before it collapsed under the weight of people not paying debts and having bags with dollar bill signs vanish mysteriously in the middle of the night. It's somewhat... poetic considering the subject matter of the game itself.

It is entirely probable indeed that when a new company comes to take the licence, many familiar faces will appear in the new company as if they had never left. Certainly back when FanPro collapsed back when I was working for the company, I simply started working for the new company as if nothing had changed. This happened back when FASA collapsed as well - those members of the team that were not extracted by Microsoft simply started turning in writing assignments to the new boss.

And yeah, I regularly go on shadowruns against Catalyst to find out what new releases are in store. Don't you?

-Frank

Before anyone calls bullshit on Frank for this, I would like to confirm that what he has stated is absolutely in line with the rumors I have heard from CGL employees. I don't want to name names on this, but my understanding of the situation is that it is that bad. CGL has put out some wonderful books, but I don't believe it can survive a malfeasance of this magnitude.

OK, how about a fundraiser for them. I know I can use the tax write off.

Brent

Ummm... a fundraiser to give monies to people who squander them? No, thanks.

Assuming this is true, of course.

EDIT: Not calling BS on Frank, btw. Just hopeful scepticism.

it wasn't squandered it was stolen.

Wow. I guess first thing to say is thank you for being so forthcoming with details and specifics. The worst possible thing for us is to not know what's going on or to have to live off rumours. I guess the second thing is to be glad of the optimism in your post. Shadowrun has been through company failure before. Hopefully it will do it again.

I guess I have the following questions which you may or may not be able to answer. I expect others share some of the same questions.

Given that it seems certain there aren't going to be any upcoming print runs, what's the availability of Shadowrun books going to be like? Are there still substantial stocks lying around and if there are, is there going to be a company still shipping them out to FLGS, etc? I know that's a compound question because the answer will be different for different books, but any general answers (or specific ones) you can answer would be interesting. For example, I was holding off from Arsenal for a second printing but if it's going to start disappearing, I'll grab it. (I was also holding out from Augmentation in the hope that it would get printed with a less awful cover, but that's a different issue).

Is this going to affect PDF sellers - i.e. presumably we can still buy things from Battlecorps and DriveThruRPG.com?

Does this affect fiction rights? When I made enquiries previously, I understood that game and fiction rights were separate. However, when I previously enquired about fiction, I was directed to approach said Loren Coleman. Do you know who the current rights holder for fiction line is and if they have any active licencees for this? It's an outlying chance, but it's not impossible that I might have some interest in this.

Do you have any inkling as to what Topps' approach to this matter will be regarding re-licencing. Basically, at what point are they going to say: "this licence is available, make us an offer" or is it going to remain tied up with Catalyst? Presumably Catalyst have licenced it for a set period and this is already paid for? Do you know when the licence would expire / be forfeit?

That's all I can think of for now. I don't know how many of those you'll be able to answer. I hope you personally aren't caught up too much in being unpaid for any of your own work. I really feel for all the developers - they've done an amazing job with 4th Edition. All I can say on this is if Shadowrun could pull through these sorts of problems with previous editions, then it ought to with 4th which is an amazing piece of work on everyone's parts.

Thanks for telling us all this,

Khadim.

I'll be happy enough if Shadowrun survives.

Thanks for the news.

Khadim, I'd like to be able to answer your questions, but I cannot. FrankTrollman as you all may know is a former freelancer for Shadowrun; he probably heard the rumors making the rounds and decided that the fans have the right to know. As a freelancer myself, I have very little contact with the business end of things and cannot answer your questions, only the people at CGL can.

I can't help but appreciate the irony . .

What does this mean for those of us who have a 1+ year old pre-order for a book that has yet to be fulfilled?


I've got my own suspicions as to what it means but... I'd rather not be a pessimist.

I figured that could be the case, but there's no harm in asking. And Frank has always been fairly ready to tell things how they are to everybody.

This is a real shame. A real shame on anyone who would selfishly take away from thousands of people's time and enjoyment in these products which now we don't know when or if we'll get, to get themselves a house extension or whatever. And a shame for all the people who've put work in and not been paid. Like Frank, I hope you personally haven't been caught by this, though you very likely have if anyone has, given your output.

Right now I feel sad about this. It will probably turn to anger soon.

K.

That's an understatement, quite honestly: Products like the 6th World Almanach or Corporate Guide are pretty much essential to newcomers that simply won't have the whole old background material available.

Wow....thanks for the information. Do you know where the lawsuit is being filed or if there is any place we can follow this development? (I realize that it just might be dumpshock postings by those in the know). I'm sure all the catalyst staff that post here have been told to not discuss with the public about ongoing litigation.

Heh, copied to RPG.Net already. 30 minutes.

I know it's an understatement. I honestly don't know how to express what I'm feeling right now over the Internet.

K.

If CGL dies then someone will pick up the pieces. Hell, I'll license the IP from Topps, what could it cost, a couple ?

I only pray Wizards of the Coast doesnt buy Shadowrun. That would mean a 5th edition AND they would probably want to WoW-ify it like they did D&D, utterly ruining it.

Tir Ghost in combat with party Street Samurai: "Ah, so, they have a mage a few meters away... I take her out and they will be crippled..."
Sammie: "Hah! Try it fool, I have aggro on you!"
Ghost: "Doh! Foiled again!"

I am so very, very unsurprised.

Of all places, let's not start a DnD edition war here.

Try several ten thousand...

AH was kind enough to point me at this thread.

If it's true...I'm simply appalled. There's not really much else I can say.

Moderator Note: Merging this with the big CGL rumor thread

Shadowrun ain't perfect. But you know what? It's fun as hell, and it would suck to lose that. So here's the deal: I saw what Frank posted, and it's got me worried. I like Shadowrun a lot. I like what CGL has done with a lot. So this is what I will do.

I'm not a professional game designer. Hell, I've never been paid by an RPG company. But I've done some playtesting and "fact-checking" (don't ask, it just pisses me off) for WotC, and G-d knows I've got spare time. And I love this game.

I have no idea how your PDF sales are, but I figure that the actual process of taking a completed PDF file and giving it to DriveThruRPG or whoever isn't that expensive. (At least compared to printing a book.) So... I can write. I can design, at least in theory. I figure that the least I can do as a last ditch effort to help is donate my skills to a company I can get behind. So I will write for you, or playtest for you, for free. Period. And my hope is that other people will do the same.

Think about it, guys: this is the age of crowdsourcing. Anyone here have PDF design experience? Anyone here want to help me with mechanics? Between all of us, we could make a decent-sized PDF and then give it to CGL immediately. Hell, my mom's a contract lawyer; I'll see if she'll write up a donation of intellectual rights contract or whatever pro bono. It's a hell of a dream, but maybe we could help get CGL back on its feet.

damn......

that sucks, and god i hope WotC doesnt pick shadowrun up if you guys cant get the money.

WotC is losing the Star Wars license and bleeding people like hell. I don't think they're gonna be picking anything up any time soon.

Your dedication to the game is admirable, but the idea of donating work to a company that allegedly stole from its own staff doesn't seem wise. I mean, basically, that's what the freelancers who haven't been paid have been doing, unintentionally.

I think my re-action to phase this succinctly in the old lexicon, "o frag it!"
Followed by," and hope that everyone gets paid."

What the...? How in..



Sure, the IP will be taken over by someone, it sounds like good money after all. I'm just hoping the CGL staff have the same chance.

I posted this on the classicbattletech boards.
One of the CGL-Demo-Team replied that he would not comment.
Now the topic has been deleted.

1. Don't prostitue yourself. It just demeans you and your ability.
2. Why don't you just grab one of the open source licences and do this for yourself. Shadowrun is just a cyberpunk game, with little to differentiate it from any other - so do it and do it for yourself.

At least we are free from such censorship on the "offical"-unoffical site.

I'd be up for that. I happen to like shadowrun, and have 5bux I can donate to a worthy cause. Now how do we do that?

Shadowrun has tons of fan support and material. Gleaning the quality out of it is the bulk of the work. That happens.

The problem, if the rumors are true, has far more to do with the ethical running of a successful business supported by a strong fan base.

Yep its not an issue of sales or such.

As I understand FrankTrollman's post, it's not the company suffering through the excessive cost of their freelancers (I think any of the freelancers would rightly lynch me if I suggested they were highly paid considering the amount of work and skill they give in return). And it's not the company as such being ripped off. The person accused of embezzlement is one fo the founders of the company, I think. Until things are a bit more straightened out and you know exactly who and what you're offering your services to, I'd be a bit more careful. Plus, there's actually plenty of material sitting around waiting to be published. It's just that the writers haven't been paid for it and the company may not have the funds to actually publish them.

That said, I effectively self-produce a fair bit of material and I have a reasonably popular site and am willing to cover hosting costs. If you are willing to put effort in to produce things, I'd be happy to provide hosting and bring it to a wider audience. It's not the same as being published by Catalyst, I'm afraid, but I get a lot of downloads and this sort of thing - on my site or others - does help Shadowrun. Like you, I love this game and that's one of the reasons I put so much work in unpaid. (Even if I were paid for it, freelance rates are still less than my "day job" rates. I suspect like a lot of the free lancers, it's largely a labour of love).

Actually, this goes for anyone else that wants to create some Shadowrun material. I wont host a scrappy four line character bio, but anything that you're proud of, please send along. I can also offer limited editing and formatting services.

K.

EDIT: I hope that didn't come across as me leaping in to plug my own site. I well know it's no comparison to the real deal, but like the OP, I love this game and I do believe that fan made material has a role to play in helping out the game. If I can help with that, it's an honour.

Assuming the rumors of CGL being in trouble have some foundation:

1. If it is simply a revenue problem, than buying PDFs directly from Battlecorps would be the best way to "donate". Since CGL gets a larger cut of those sales than through other methods of distribution.
2. If CGL is in trouble due to theft at the top, then a donation will not help any of us, and will help a thief.

In all honesty, I think this will be the end of CGL. Such malfeasance by a head of the company means there is 0 chance of them getting loans and 100% probabilty that there will be cash flow issues. Which means production and cashflow issues will end the Topps agreement.

Exactly the problem there. Buying product is the easiest way to contribute - unless its going to the wrong guy's pockets. I was actaully thinking more along the lines of a paypal charity account. You can always send -that- to the right person, once you find out who it is.

I would say that the right people would be the freelancers that have not yet been paid. CGL is in enough of a quagmire as it is, it seems. If there are freelancers out there not paid for past work, they deserve some compensation. Perhaps it would even lessen the animosity so they come back to work for whoever picks up the license in the future.

Yeah, we had a local tech company whose CEO was filtering money into his own lifestyle. That ended up with the feds raiding the business, a couple dozen people unemployed, and the CEO putting a 12-gauge through his head in a police standoff.

You'd probably need to cough up a five-figure ammount just to get the initial printing to the presses. And who would give that to a company where (as far as we have been told) $850,000 disappeared and the boss seems to be the prime suspect?

Ouch I hope for every ones sake this issue with CGL runs much smoother. Not that I'm a huge fan of the ones responceable for the fincala problems but I'd like to see a death free solution and hopefully one thats job loss free.

That's sad news. CGL has been doing awesome work with the Shadowrun license.

I sure hope it isn't that bad, and they somehow make it through this mess.

Even if that means, that new releases will be just in PDF for a while.

Bye
Thanee

P.S. And hopefully those LEs will still get sent out...

It's a nice thought, but if the freelancers have any animosity, it's with the publishers, not the fans. The freelancers love the game as much as anyone else, it's why most of us transitioned from one SR license holder to another, even after getting burned by the former. If the SR license moves somewhere else as a result of all this, it'll be up to that new publisher to convince the freelancers to trust it. Which, given Shadowrun's past, will be a challenge.

Damn.
That. Really. Sucks.

If that happens in this case, we'll get an eight page thread arguing about the accuracy of the point blank modifier rules.

K.

But if they could come up with enough to hold onto the IP use/printing rights, it would at least give them the opprotunity to -maybe- come up with something. Without the rights to SR, that's that.


What does this mean for books which are effectively ready to print? Do they potentially get picked up by the next IP holder, and if printed then people are paid?

I just want to support knasser's idea. Good fan-written material is always a bonus for Shadowrun, no matter who holds the license or what is going on with it.

If CGL were to fold or lose the license, yes, that could happen. It would all depend on the negotiations. Similar things happened when FanPro lost the license to CGL.

Exactly! They are sticking to what gives BIG money and that is D&D and Wizards. If Wizards decides they are ready to expand again, I think they would try to get Star Wars license first (if it is stil available and probably will) then go after Shadowrun first.

oh. Frag. This sucks.

Hope things work out.

Any word from CGL employees as to how the fans can help?