The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[Demonseed Elite]

1.) Does "net payment 30 days after publication" mean that they pay the whole amount after 30 days or only part? Any payment up front?

The whole amount is due 30 days after the piece is published. There is no payment up front.

2.) I know that FASA and FanPro where bad with paying on time, was this also as bad at CGL?

I didn't freelance for CGL very long, so I'm not the best source there. In my experience, CGL wasn't as bad as FASA or FanPro, but CGL also did promise us out of the gate that they would not have the problems with contracts and payments that the previous two publishers had, which was part of the reason I kept writing for CGL even after being bitterly angry about how FanPro had treated the freelancers at the end. For instance, I was told that CGL had an Operations Manager (one of the recently resigned staff, actually) that would make sure late contracts were a thing of the past. It didn't work out that way.

3.) The contract not being send and signed before you start the job was something I encountered with Paradigm Concepts (and consequently refused to do the job), but did that happen often with CGL?

Yes, even though we were told it wouldn't happen. I'm not sure if they got better at that after I stopped writing for them, one of the other freelancers would have to speak to that. In the case of the Manhattan e-book, CGL wanted final drafts before I had even seen the contract. I repeatedly e-mailed the Operations Manager for the contract and then eventually quit the project because I was not getting an answer. Of course, shortly after I quit the project, the contract showed up in my e-mail.

4.) Any experience with freelancing with other game companies (then mentioned above) and did they also have these issues?

I haven't written for any other game companies, no. I've written for non-RPG outlets, though, and there's a world of difference.

I know that working on RPGs wasn't very profitable to begin with, very low compensation per word/illustration, but if the above is true most of the time for most of the freelance personnel (writers, illustrators, etc.) then it surprises me greatly that CGL has any freelancers. The stress would probably kill me...

Like AH said, we did it because we love the game. I still get ideas now and then that I would love to send in, or I see an upcoming book that I would love to be part of, but I don't let myself do it anymore, because it's just not worth the hassle.

[Prime Mover]

I think its worth offering a big thanks to Jason Hardy for being on top of this problem and keeping the fans informed. I see he's been posting in several places over the last few days and is obviously doing his best to keep the Shadowrun line moving forward.

(Need to get release date for DotA 2 posted up on SR4 site still.)

[JM Hardy]

(Need to get release date for DotA 2 posted up on SR4 site still.)

I appreciate the note--and the reminder! I'll make sure it gets up there!

Jason H.

[spongeclip]

I bought Unwired, Arsenal and Augmentation yesterday. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/embarrassed.gif)

Yeah now would be the time to snap up all the CGL books that you can because they might be out of print if CGL goes under - which i see as unlikely but possible. I've been watching books on amazon steadily raise in price withe runners companion peaking at 250$ about 3 days ago. I'm a collector and I'm very proud of my collection that includes the full IK 3.5 line all Delta Green books in first edition (Countdown was a punch in the wallet at 300$) an regardless of the outcome of the financial crisis i plan on playing SR4 for some time to come and contributing to a open source online fan community if necessary to keep it alive.

I think its worth offering a big thanks to Jason Hardy for being on top of this problem and keeping the fans informed. I see he's been posting in several places over the last few days and is obviously doing his best to keep the Shadowrun line moving forward.

I agree. It's nice to see employees get personally involved here on the forums to let us know what is going on.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Yeah now would be the time to snap up all the CGL books that you can because they might be out of print if CGL goes under - which i see as unlikely but possible.

Don't worry about dead trees, stock would still be around for a while.

But you could kiss the searchable, DRM- & watermark-free PDFs from BattleShop goodbye instantly. And while it is quite likely to see new prints with a new publisher, seeing PDFs again… not so much.

[Cheops]

Crafty Games is probably to small to cough up the dough for the licenses and they don't have a great track record with releases. FFG is out of the RPG business.

Not sure if I pointed this out up thread here or over at RPG.net but Crafty just announced Spycraft 3.0 so I really doubt they are interested in the SR license. They are also very small as you point out.

FFG is certainly not out of the RPG business. The big, awesome box of WFRP 3rd Edition that is sitting on my shelf would argue otherwise, along with the recent shipping of the Gamemaster's Toolkit as well as the announcement of a Deathwatch RPG to complement Dark Heresey and Rogue Trader.

[Cergorach]

Not sure if I pointed this out up thread here or over at RPG.net but Crafty just announced Spycraft 3.0 so I really doubt they are interested in the SR license. They are also very small as you point out.

FFG is certainly not out of the RPG business. The big, awesome box of WFRP 3rd Edition that is sitting on my shelf would argue otherwise, along with the recent shipping of the Gamemaster's Toolkit as well as the announcement of a Deathwatch RPG to complement Dark Heresey and Rogue Trader.

Doh! I completely forgot FFGs WFRP, DH, and RT! I even have all of them sitting on a plank behind me. Let's call it a momentary lapse into being stupid, sorry. I'm not a great fan of WFRP 3rd Edition, I have it, but just not doing 'it' for me. But if the quality of DH and RT is any indication, they would deliver some great SR/BT products. On the other hand if WFRP is any indication, they release three books before they turn it into a board game...

[Cheops]

Yes actually FFG would be a good fit. Especially since Battletech kind of falls into their wheel-house: board games. Picking up the license gives them a tried and tested Table-Top Miniatures game as well as Game Universe for an RPG. Shadowrun not so much but they'd do a good job of it. Plus I wouldn't mind seeing a full re-try of an SR miniatures game a la DMZ (wasn't a fan of that action figure game they put out a while back). Or maybe a re-try of the CCG.

[tete]

I wonder how WFRP 3 is doing for FFG, I think that would determine if they go that route again. Thier RPGs have not been as successful as their board games but SJG said the same thing in the shareholder report. RPGs just don't sell like board games. After playing Desolation I'm tempted to try WFRP at a con, it made me realize custom dice are kinda cool.

[Tiger Eyes]

Midnight has a March 22nd Street Date. Of course, it'd be even nicer if I, or any of the other people who worked on it, were paid...

I'm sorry. At this time, it looks as though I was incorrect in stating Midnight's street date, which has now moved to undetermined, I believe.

[Mikado]

I'm sorry. At this time, it looks as though I was incorrect in stating Midnight's street date, which has now moved to undetermined, I believe.

Tease...

[Saint Sithney]

But you could kiss the searchable, DRM- & watermark-free PDFs from BattleShop goodbye instantly. And while it is quite likely to see new prints with a new publisher, seeing PDFs again… not so much.

Oh man. If things do go all the way south, I hope this leads to a massive PDF release rush.

Is there a reason they wouldn't go all fire sale on us if it really was the end of days? There seems to be a bit of talk about how they've got stockpiles of stuff waiting on release. That's assuming they can clear tabs with the FL writers I guess...

[knasser]

Oh man. If things do go all the way south, I hope this leads to a massive PDF release rush.

Is there a reason they wouldn't go all fire sale on us if it really was the end of days? There seems to be a bit of talk about how they've got stockpiles of stuff waiting on release. That's assuming they can clear tabs with the FL writers I guess...

I just hope that if CGL retains the licence, they don't try to recoup the money by rushing out a 5th edition and trying to squeeze more money out of everyone. And if someone else takes over, that they don't do so either.

K.

[Daylen]

It must have been an alien wizard that made off with the money!

[Dwight]

I just hope that if CGL retains the licence, they don't try to recoup the money by rushing out a 5th edition and trying to squeeze more money out of everyone. And if someone else takes over, that they don't do so either.

K.

Developing, publishing, and flogging a new set of rules isn't exactly cheap. There is serious up-front outlay for that sort of thing, which is exactly where CGL isn't right now, given that they've been making only small print runs for some time.

[Stahlseele]

Well, technically, they should/could have been doing that for quite some time now.
If you look back, each version of shadowrun had a life time of about 5 years.
And shadowrun 4 is about 5 years old now if i am not mistaken.
Technically, it is time for a new version of Shadowrun no matter what happens at/with/to CGL . .

[spongeclip]

It must have been an alien wizard that made off with the money!

lol, shoot it! shoot it! shoot it again!!

[HappyDaze]

I just hope that if CGL retains the licence, they don't try to recoup the money by rushing out a 5th edition and trying to squeeze more money out of everyone. And if someone else takes over, that they don't do so either.

K.

I'm in 50% agreement and 50% the other way. If Catalyst retains the license, I hope they don't try to put out another edition. OTOH, I would love to see another company give a go at creating SR5.

[Stahlseele]

Wasn't there a rumor about SR5D20 some years back? *runs for his life*

[Adam]

5 * 20 is 100. SR + D = SRD, System Reference Document. Put together the clues!

[Dwight]

5 * 20 is 100. SR + D = SRD, System Reference Document. Put together the clues!

All is clear, gaming vibrating at the 100th harmonic of colour!

[fistandantilus4....]

Wasn't there a rumor about SR5D20 some years back? *runs for his life*

That was an April Fools joke. Shame on you for bringing it back up. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Dread Moores]

SR and Ctech sales halted?

That doesn't sound so reassuring.

[Cardul]

SR and Ctech sales halted?

That doesn't sound so reassuring.

First, I have never been so sure about ICV2's news, as it has been wrong in the past.
Second, it seems that it is a selective list, not total. It would be nice if we knew which sales
have been stopped. I expect it is going to be the books that are still needing to get their
freelancers paid.

I notice that it did not list Battletech sales being halted, which could imply either
a) There are no products that Freelancers on Battletech had not been paid for, or
b) The unpaid Battletech Freelancers accepted the payment schedules sent out, while
the SR and Cthulhutech people did not
or c) The SR Freelancers made a big stink, someone threatened with a lawyer, and CGL
decided to stop the books with unpaid Freelancers, despite doing so costing them potential
revenue, to pay the Freelancers first.
or d) The books that are on the list are pre-order books, and CGL is trying to make sure they can
cover the pre-orders, since the books are delayed in printing either because of this or from
other considerations, and, overall, has no bearing on the rumourmill.

Can we get a listing of the books that are (likely) temporarily halted on sales?

I did a bit of searching on the Battleshop. I found only two books which had their PDFs pulled: Vice and
Seattle 2072. They are also out of stock on SR4A. It seems likely these are the books they asked distributors
to stop taking orders for, as a) They obviously cannot keep up with the demand for SR4A, and b) I have never
seen a book available as a PDF go to "book only" from CGL. Vice and Seattle 2072 are also the only SR4 books
missing from Drivethrurpg.

Interestingly, I see no CthulhuTech books missing from either source. Also, I would expect the SR4A LE to be
among the "halts", simply because of all the delays with that book getting here.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The DotA:Dusk PDF is missing from BattleShop. Sounds like some freelancers are serious about copyright.

Again: If you are interested in specific PDFs, now seems to be the time to get them.