The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[Dread Moores]

I have to admit a little concern with the freelancer contract setup. I'd imagine CGL's approach probably isn't that different from other publishers in terms of how it is handled. It does seem a little strange though. The writer (freelancer in this case) has already done the work, and presumably handled any rewrites requested from proofing/editing/fact checking folks. It's only personal opinion here, but it seems that the pay out for the work already completed should be done at that point. The responsibility to turn a profit from sales of the actual book falls on CGL, not the freelancers. If the freelancers were paid, upon completion of the material to "print-ready" status, it wouldn't matter about the potential for pulling copyright or freelancers constantly being in backlog. It would indeed matter that CGL would need to make a profit on their products, but isn't that really their responsibility already? I'm sure there's a business reason for this approach, but the whole thing just seems a little off to me, with the potential to cause way too many problems. Like the issues we're seeing now, due the current financial problem to be sorted out.

[Method]

Hmmm. So it really is as bad as it appeared...

[Doc Byte]

I have to admit a little concern with the freelancer contract setup. I'd imagine CGL's approach probably isn't that different from other publishers in terms of how it is handled. It does seem a little strange though. The writer (freelancer in this case) has already done the work, and presumably handled any rewrites requested from proofing/editing/fact checking folks. It's only personal opinion here, but it seems that the pay out for the work already completed should be done at that point.

I've just signed a contract for translating RPG books. (Can't name the game or publisher but it's not SR.) Commonly the publisher will pay 1 to 2 months after the book's been published. (That's plus editing and printing.) So, that seems to be a common approach.

[Dread Moores]

I figured as much. It still seems all kinds of wrong and screwy, even though it is likely industry standard. You should be paid for the work you've done, not the money the company will eventually make off your work sometime down the road.

[Method]

Thats totally true, but as has been stated most of the freelancers write for love of the game not the money. Unfortunately it seems their good intentions have allowed them to be taken advantage of.

[Dwight]

Thats totally true, but as has been stated most of the freelancers write for love of the game not the money. Unfortunately it seems their good intentions have allowed them to be taken advantage of.

Or, written another way, they are willing to substitute a certain amount of monetary gains (or the probability there-of) in return for some other thing they value. Negotiations happen, market values are determined, capitalism marches on.

[Stahlseele]

Hmm, i just thought of a question all this threw up for me:
If CGL does both SR and BT, do the BT freelancers have the same problems as the SR freelancers?

[SecGuard]

Hmm, i just thought of a question all this threw up for me:
If CGL does both SR and BT, do the BT freelancers have the same problems as the SR freelancers?

They probably do, hope we don't loose either of these games.

This post has been edited by SecGuard: Mar 20 2010, 06:36 PM

[Stahlseele]

CBT being an official board, i don't really expect an answer, but i asked this question over there too.

[Method]

Let us know if you get an answer.

[Dread Moores]

Or, written another way, they are willing to substitute a certain amount of monetary gains (or the probability there-of) in return for some other thing they value. Negotiations happen, market values are determined, capitalism marches on.

You're right. It's totally a choice on the part of the freelancers to even accept the contracts. I would have just hoped that maybe CGL didn't have some of the same practices that I feel are quite broken in other creative/artistic based industries. Especially considering past promises to not run into the same issues with freelancers (and authors) that both FASA and FanPro encountered/caused.

This post has been edited by Dread Moores: Mar 20 2010, 07:14 PM

[Stahlseele]

Let us know if you get an answer.

Sure, but i would not hold my breath . .

[Saint Sithney]

So, to break down the kickstarter.com method of fixing this shizz, we would need someone from CGL accounts to go through each book and tally up how many funds they would require to meet the payments for unsatisfied contractors, add on whatever, if any, % of sales go to staff, the 5% kickstarter take, and maybe even tax. Then, with lawful oversight provided by the FLers, they could start up a kickstart project with its listed goal at that amount, and offer up PDFs for a donation of their regular price and above and hardbounds at their price and above. Then, if somebody wants to buy it (or just donate for some reason,) they're linked to the kickstart page where they can pledge the price of the item on kickstarter, and if the total money goal is met, people who want swag get swag, the workers get their druthers, and CGL gets the publishing rights back without bleeding a single red cent from their miser's palms. If the goal isn't met, then people who want swag get their money back and it's a null equation all around.

Seems a shame no one is currently in the position to make this happen.

[JM Hardy]

I just posted this in the stickied thread, but I thought it should go here too. Management has issued another statement to address some books being pulled (which was originally reported by ICV2.com, which explains the header of the statement. The statement in its entirety follows.

>>>
In Response To ICV2.com’s News Item, 03/19/2010 09:34pm

ICV2 is a great website that rapidly compiles information across the width and breadth of the gaming industry, as it occurs, and tries to provide a single source for all such news. However, there recent report contained some factual inaccuracies.

First, there has been no halt to sales of any CthulhuTech products. We’re are in negotiations with our friends at WildFire for how best to move forward, ensuring this great book line continues to grow. As such, neither Catalyst Game Labs, nor WildFire, have put a stop to any books from being sold.

Second, the stoppage of a small, select list of Shadowrun books has nothing to do with the license for Shadowrun, which Catalyst still holds. Instead, the halt to sales is due to on going negotiations between Catalyst and its freelancers. We’re moving quickly and thoroughly to resolve this situation to mutual satisfaction, so the community can have access to these great Shadowrun books in short order once more.
>>>

As has been my wont, I'll continue hanging around to answer what questions I can.

Jason H.

[Tiger Eyes]

Excellent to hear. Although I personally have not been contacted by any of the management of Catalyst regarding my request for payment, I'm happy to hear they are in "on going negotiations"... with... someone...

[LurkerOutThere]

So yea as covered earlier ICV2 jumps the gun again and posts rumors as news.

I personalyl found it very intertaining that the ICV2 article linked a forum post as a source which linked dumpshock and then the ICV2 article.

[Ancient History]

One can only wonder what this "negotiation" entails. Most of the freelancers I know are just asking to be paid according to the terms of their contracts. Pay the freelancers for their work, and you can do what you want with it. Not a whole lot of room for negotiation there.

[Method]

It sounds like the freelancers need a face to represent them...

[LurkerOutThere]

Yes this is the problem for a publishing company in a money shortfall Best way to get money > Publish > Requres copyright >> requires payment >> Requires Money.

I won't prepare to understand the full story and maybe the freelancers have reached the point where the nuclear option of withholding publishing rights seems like a good idea. But until then it seems like a null gain situation.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

That's just legalese. If you can claim that you are in "on going negotiations" with the other side about the fullfillment of a contract, you can wiggle out of that fullfillment being overdue. Usually, the standard response is to deny that there are such.

[KnightRunner]

OK I admit it, it was me. I jinxed it. I decided to get back into SR after a long break. Just played my first game last Saturday. I was very excited and made the comment, "Things seem to be going well for CGL, they appear to have their stuff together."

Sorry. A Shadowrunner should be more paranoid.

[SecGuard]

OK I admit it, it was me. I jinxed it. I decided to get back into SR after a long break. Just played my first game last Saturday. I was very excited and made the comment, "Things seem to be going well for CGL, they appear to have their stuff together."

Sorry. A Shadowrunner should be more paranoid.

I'll take some of the blame as well, i just started looking at getting back into the game after a massive break.

[Chrysalis]

I started thinking maybe CGL would be a good place to start my freelance writing career.
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

-Chrysalis

[LurkerOutThere]

Well they might be hiring, of yourse you may have to take your payment in PDF credits (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Freejack]

I'll take some of the blame as well, i just started looking at getting back into the game after a massive break.

Funny, I think it's me. See I've been running Shadowrun pretty much exclusively for the past 3 years, buying up PDFs _and_ deadtree books (multiple copies).

Last weekend I ran a game of Deadlands Reloaded.


I'm sorry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Carl