The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[bmcoomes]

it wasn't squandered it was stolen.

[knasser]

Wow. I guess first thing to say is thank you for being so forthcoming with details and specifics. The worst possible thing for us is to not know what's going on or to have to live off rumours. I guess the second thing is to be glad of the optimism in your post. Shadowrun has been through company failure before. Hopefully it will do it again.

I guess I have the following questions which you may or may not be able to answer. I expect others share some of the same questions.

Given that it seems certain there aren't going to be any upcoming print runs, what's the availability of Shadowrun books going to be like? Are there still substantial stocks lying around and if there are, is there going to be a company still shipping them out to FLGS, etc? I know that's a compound question because the answer will be different for different books, but any general answers (or specific ones) you can answer would be interesting. For example, I was holding off from Arsenal for a second printing but if it's going to start disappearing, I'll grab it. (I was also holding out from Augmentation in the hope that it would get printed with a less awful cover, but that's a different issue).

Is this going to affect PDF sellers - i.e. presumably we can still buy things from Battlecorps and DriveThruRPG.com?

Does this affect fiction rights? When I made enquiries previously, I understood that game and fiction rights were separate. However, when I previously enquired about fiction, I was directed to approach said Loren Coleman. Do you know who the current rights holder for fiction line is and if they have any active licencees for this? It's an outlying chance, but it's not impossible that I might have some interest in this.

Do you have any inkling as to what Topps' approach to this matter will be regarding re-licencing. Basically, at what point are they going to say: "this licence is available, make us an offer" or is it going to remain tied up with Catalyst? Presumably Catalyst have licenced it for a set period and this is already paid for? Do you know when the licence would expire / be forfeit?

That's all I can think of for now. I don't know how many of those you'll be able to answer. I hope you personally aren't caught up too much in being unpaid for any of your own work. I really feel for all the developers - they've done an amazing job with 4th Edition. All I can say on this is if Shadowrun could pull through these sorts of problems with previous editions, then it ought to with 4th which is an amazing piece of work on everyone's parts.

Thanks for telling us all this,

Khadim.

[Nifft]

I'll be happy enough if Shadowrun survives.

Thanks for the news.

[Ancient History]

Khadim, I'd like to be able to answer your questions, but I cannot. FrankTrollman as you all may know is a former freelancer for Shadowrun; he probably heard the rumors making the rounds and decided that the fans have the right to know. As a freelancer myself, I have very little contact with the business end of things and cannot answer your questions, only the people at CGL can.

[Stahlseele]

I can't help but appreciate the irony . .

[darthmord]

What does this mean for those of us who have a 1+ year old pre-order for a book that has yet to be fulfilled?


I've got my own suspicions as to what it means but... I'd rather not be a pessimist.

[knasser]

Khadim, I'd like to be able to answer your questions, but I cannot. FrankTrollman as you all may know is a former freelancer for Shadowrun; he probably heard the rumors making the rounds and decided that the fans have the right to know. As a freelancer myself, I have very little contact with the business end of things and cannot answer your questions, only the people at CGL can.

I figured that could be the case, but there's no harm in asking. And Frank has always been fairly ready to tell things how they are to everybody. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

This is a real shame. A real shame on anyone who would selfishly take away from thousands of people's time and enjoyment in these products which now we don't know when or if we'll get, to get themselves a house extension or whatever. And a shame for all the people who've put work in and not been paid. Like Frank, I hope you personally haven't been caught by this, though you very likely have if anyone has, given your output.

Right now I feel sad about this. It will probably turn to anger soon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

K.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

This is a real shame.

That's an understatement, quite honestly: Products like the 6th World Almanach or Corporate Guide are pretty much essential to newcomers that simply won't have the whole old background material available.

[Warlordtheft]

Wow....thanks for the information. Do you know where the lawsuit is being filed or if there is any place we can follow this development? (I realize that it just might be dumpshock postings by those in the know). I'm sure all the catalyst staff that post here have been told to not discuss with the public about ongoing litigation.

[DireRadiant]

Heh, copied to RPG.Net already. 30 minutes.

[knasser]

That's an understatement, quite honestly: Products like the 6th World Almanach or Corporate Guide are pretty much essential to newcomers that simply won't have the whole old background material available.

I know it's an understatement. I honestly don't know how to express what I'm feeling right now over the Internet.

K.

[gorramfrakker]

If CGL dies then someone will pick up the pieces. Hell, I'll license the IP from Topps, what could it cost, a couple (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[KnightIII]

I only pray Wizards of the Coast doesnt buy Shadowrun. That would mean a 5th edition AND they would probably want to WoW-ify it like they did D&D, utterly ruining it.

Tir Ghost in combat with party Street Samurai: "Ah, so, they have a mage a few meters away... I take her out and they will be crippled..."
Sammie: "Hah! Try it fool, I have aggro on you!"
Ghost: "Doh! Foiled again!"

[Demonseed Elite]

I am so very, very unsurprised.

[Fatum]

I only pray Wizards of the Coast doesnt buy Shadowrun. That would mean a 5th edition AND they would probably want to WoW-ify it like they did D&D, utterly ruining it.

Of all places, let's not start a DnD edition war here.

[Stahlseele]

If CGL dies then someone will pick up the pieces. Hell, I'll license the IP from Topps, what could it cost, a couple (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

Try several ten thousand...

[winterhawk11]

AH was kind enough to point me at this thread.

If it's true...I'm simply appalled. There's not really much else I can say.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

Moderator Note: Merging this with the big CGL rumor thread

Shadowrun ain't perfect. But you know what? It's fun as hell, and it would suck to lose that. So here's the deal: I saw what Frank posted, and it's got me worried. I like Shadowrun a lot. I like what CGL has done with a lot. So this is what I will do.

I'm not a professional game designer. Hell, I've never been paid by an RPG company. But I've done some playtesting and "fact-checking" (don't ask, it just pisses me off) for WotC, and G-d knows I've got spare time. And I love this game.

I have no idea how your PDF sales are, but I figure that the actual process of taking a completed PDF file and giving it to DriveThruRPG or whoever isn't that expensive. (At least compared to printing a book.) So... I can write. I can design, at least in theory. I figure that the least I can do as a last ditch effort to help is donate my skills to a company I can get behind. So I will write for you, or playtest for you, for free. Period. And my hope is that other people will do the same.

Think about it, guys: this is the age of crowdsourcing. Anyone here have PDF design experience? Anyone here want to help me with mechanics? Between all of us, we could make a decent-sized PDF and then give it to CGL immediately. Hell, my mom's a contract lawyer; I'll see if she'll write up a donation of intellectual rights contract or whatever pro bono. It's a hell of a dream, but maybe we could help get CGL back on its feet.

[tim]

damn......

that sucks, and god i hope WotC doesnt pick shadowrun up if you guys cant get the money.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

WotC is losing the Star Wars license and bleeding people like hell. I don't think they're gonna be picking anything up any time soon.

[Demonseed Elite]

Your dedication to the game is admirable, but the idea of donating work to a company that allegedly stole from its own staff doesn't seem wise. I mean, basically, that's what the freelancers who haven't been paid have been doing, unintentionally.

[Pendaric]

I think my re-action to phase this succinctly in the old lexicon, "o frag it!"
Followed by," and hope that everyone gets paid."

[Sengir]

What the...? How in..

So what does this mean for the future of Shadowrun? It probably means that someone else will create a company and start making Shadowrun again.

Sure, the IP will be taken over by someone, it sounds like good money after all. I'm just hoping the CGL staff have the same chance.

[Stahlseele]

I posted this on the classicbattletech boards.
One of the CGL-Demo-Team replied that he would not comment.
Now the topic has been deleted.

[Synner667]

Shadowrun ain't perfect. But you know what? It's fun as hell, and it would suck to lose that. So here's the deal: I saw what Frank posted, and it's got me worried. I like Shadowrun a lot. I like what CGL has done with a lot. So this is what I will do.

I'm not a professional game designer. Hell, I've never been paid by an RPG company. But I've done some playtesting and "fact-checking" (don't ask, it just pisses me off) for WotC, and G-d knows I've got spare time. And I love this game.

I have no idea how your PDF sales are, but I figure that the actual process of taking a completed PDF file and giving it to DriveThruRPG or whoever isn't that expensive. (At least compared to printing a book.) So... I can write. I can design, at least in theory. I figure that the least I can do as a last ditch effort to help is donate my skills to a company I can get behind. So I will write for you, or playtest for you, for free. Period. And my hope is that other people will do the same.

Think about it, guys: this is the age of crowdsourcing. Anyone here have PDF design experience? Anyone here want to help me with mechanics? Between all of us, we could make a decent-sized PDF and then give it to CGL immediately. Hell, my mom's a contract lawyer; I'll see if she'll write up a donation of intellectual rights contract or whatever pro bono. It's a hell of a dream, but maybe we could help get CGL back on its feet.

1. Don't prostitue yourself. It just demeans you and your ability.
2. Why don't you just grab one of the open source licences and do this for yourself. Shadowrun is just a cyberpunk game, with little to differentiate it from any other - so do it and do it for yourself.