The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[Kumo]

Geez, I really like old SR slang... I even use words "drek" and "frag" in RL quite often.

[pbangarth]

P.S. Plus, you do you know smegma is, right?

I always thought "Smegmo"/"Smegma" would be a great name for certain character types in that other game.

[Dwight]

Geez, I really like old SR slang... I even use words "drek" and "frag" in RL quite often.

I use frag all the time...from FPSs. Drek, although an actual word (Yiddish) just fell dead for me. Because the Hasidic Jews didn't get their own country in NA? Because NY-NY was effectively a big whole in the setting? *shrug*

[Cergorach]

The fake slang never totally worked or felt natural - the fake swears felt like false modesty even when I first read SR2 when I was 11. (I recall saying to my brother something along the lines of "I wish they'd just swear already.")

But it works so well in Battlestar Galactica (new version) and Caprica. And at the gaming table it also works a lot better, parents/spouses/siblings tend to find it unacceptable if the F word is used as if it was a bad HBO flick. I hadn't really noticed that they removed the slang curse words and replaced them with current curse words, but that would be one of the first things I would house rule.

[Method]

I think it is entirely dependent on the group you play with.

Now wasn't there a topic around here somewhere... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[Khyron]

To me, the old SR slang sounded more like slang from another country that was suddenly forced onto American English. It just felt awkward and embarrassing to use with any regularity.

[Demonseed Elite]

My problem with the slang wasn't that it existed, it was that it replaced effective language (yeah, love it or not, swearing is effective language at times). I have no problem with it still existing, though I think the real-world alternatives should be used in the text where appropriate too.

And yeah, we've strayed off-topic.

[Doc Byte]

Agreed, but that's editorial consistency as opposed to worrying about comparing SR nanotechnology to real life nanotech theory. YOu can base it in realism, but I firmly believe that 95% of Shadowrun players, if not more, are mroe familiar with and more accepting of "Movie Nanites" and "real life theoretical Nanites". And that applies across the board.

and

I hate to contribute the the off topic bits but I've never been able to put my finger on it but after reading your statement I think thats what I've been pondering about as well. For me anyways I agree with the too grounded in reality statement.

To me it's not a "grounded in reality" issue but it has something to do with suspension of disbelief. Prä-SR4 was based on the mid to late 80s. However SR's set in a near future based on our own. While I agee that SR's a parallel universe it was increasingly hard to take SR seriously when e.g. the iPhone became better than a cyberdeck in some aspects. SR simply needed an update for sustaining the suspension of disbelief.

[Cain]

To me it's not a "grounded in reality" issue but it has something to do with suspension of disbelief. Prä-SR4 was based on the mid to late 80s. However SR's set in a near future based on our own. While I agee that SR's a parallel universe it was increasingly hard to take SR seriously when e.g. the iPhone became better than a cyberdeck in some aspects. SR simply needed an update for sustaining the suspension of disbelief.

Oh, please. No one complains about the unreality of Buck Rogers or Star Wars, despite the fact that their technology is supposed to be super-advanced. In some ways, their technology is behind ours. The new BSG really didn't have much technology that was ahead of ours, and was actually behind ours in a few ways.

But to get back on topic: Adam, do you mind telling us a bit about why you decided to leave Catalyst? They lost one of the best people in layout in the industry, so I'm surprised they let you go easily.

[Demonseed Elite]

Oh, please. No one complains about the unreality of Buck Rogers or Star Wars, despite the fact that their technology is supposed to be super-advanced. In some ways, their technology is behind ours. The new BSG really didn't have much technology that was ahead of ours, and was actually behind ours in a few ways.

Yeah, I don't think that's the problem. SR4 with cyberdecks could have been done and it could have been awesome, really. Part of it was developer/publisher decision; there was a definite direction stated with SR4 and some things were non-negotiable. Part of it is that Shadowrun is a game with a timeline and as the plot and history moved forward, there was a certain narrative momentum that felt like the technology should move forward too. If Shadowrun didn't have a metaplot, it'd be much easier to keep it in a world of cyberdecks and chrome limbs.

[Doc Byte]

Oh, please. No one complains about the unreality of Buck Rogers or Star Wars, despite the fact that their technology is supposed to be super-advanced. In some ways, their technology is behind ours. The new BSG really didn't have much technology that was ahead of ours, and was actually behind ours in a few ways.

Apart from the fact that Star Wars' not even set in our galaxy none of those are near future settings firmly based on our reality. I can live with a 6th world without MS or Goolge, but I can and will ask why their tech's underdeveloped in central aspects like W-LANs and smartphones. And don't tell me something about the crash. Did they forget how to read books? As a matter of fact I'd love to see more aspects of our reality in SR. Especially the climatic change. Bruce Sterling has associate that with Cyberpunk years ago.

[BlueMax]

In the words of the Dude
"That's just like your opinion... man"
Which is aimed at all of you discussing Shadowslang , 4th ED and just how freaking awesome I am in a thread with very different and very important subject.


BlueMax
/she isn't my special lady
//I am just helping her conceive

[Cergorach]

I can live with a 6th world without MS or Goolge

Hehehe... It was turned into Ghoulgle (or is Ghougle better), for looking up your next meal, graveyards, etc.

[Doc Byte]

Yeah, I don't think that's the problem. SR4 with cyberdecks could have been done and it could have been awesome, really.

Yes, it could have been done for the old players. (Well, I am an old player, running since 1993, but I still love the changes...) But I doubt it would have attracted many new (read as young) players. Generation X-Box simply wouldn't buy Cyberdecks with wires.

[Method]

Apart from the fact that Star Wars' not even set in our galaxy none of those are near future settings

Yeah, its even in the disclaimer: "A long time ago in a galaxy far far way..."

[Doc Byte]

Which is aimed at all of you discussing Shadowslang , 4th ED and just how freaking awesome I am in a thread with very different and very important subject.

I see a certain connection. At least regarding the changed setting. These points are important, particular if we might face a new edition with new devs and maybe new developments concerning the future setting.

[Adam]

But to get back on topic: Adam, do you mind telling us a bit about why you decided to leave Catalyst?

Yes, I do. I believe that it is important that the general public know I'm not working at Catalyst anymore, but the details are for myself/Catalyst and selected people [friends, family] to know.

I am far more interested in my future than my past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Daylen]

Especially the climatic change. Bruce Sterling has associate that with Cyberpunk years ago.

and turn the game into a political statement?

[BlueMax]

I see a certain connection. At least regarding the changed setting. These points are important, particular if we might face a new edition with new devs and maybe new developments concerning the future setting.

Given that logic, it would fit into any thread at any time. My point is that we as a community have hashed out the wireless pros/cons/assumed realities and the desires related language before in other threads , whereas the post by Frank and the responses are new ground.

The only transfer suggested in this thread which grabbed my interest was a pipe dream, Weisman. One that I would enjoy muchly.

There is most certainly going to be a new edition.... my SR4ALE is on the boat... or so the current spiel goes.

BlueMax

[fistandantilus4....]

Please keep the posts in line with the subject of this thread. Shadowslang for example has nothing to do with Catalyst Game Labs. Open another thread boys. That's why we've got so much space. I'd much rather this thread not get bloated down. Thanks.
-F4.0

[Dixie Flatline]

As soemone who's becoming more active in the freelancer pool again after too many years dormant, I'm hoping I can help reawaken some of that fantastic. Shadowrun needs to find it's voice again. And IMO, that voice says "Frag" and "Drek" and "Chummer" a lot. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I'm glad I'm not the only person who really, REALLY misses all the SR slang. The first time I saw a real-world swear word in Shadowrun 4th (I forgot which book... Emergence?) my heart sank a little. It seemed a little childish at first, but seriously, that slang is a surprisingly large portion of what made Shadowrun feel unique.

It's like A Clockwork Orange. One reason why it's so unique is because of the slang used in the novel to really create a feeling of a different culture. Cribbing from modern English robs the game of a slightly alien feel. Not enough games pay attention to such small details.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

I am far more interested in my future than my past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Who isn't? Unless of course you are Jason Bourne (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) (if other people can derail this thread, so can I)

and turn the game into a political statement?

Wasn't this resolved by the foundation of the Amazonian Nation and the fact that the entire brazilian territory (Rio de Janeiro - São Paulo axis the exception) had its native vegetation grown to the original status pre-portuguese colonization?

[Cheops]

To me it's not a "grounded in reality" issue but it has something to do with suspension of disbelief. Prä-SR4 was based on the mid to late 80s. However SR's set in a near future based on our own. While I agee that SR's a parallel universe it was increasingly hard to take SR seriously when e.g. the iPhone became better than a cyberdeck in some aspects. SR simply needed an update for sustaining the suspension of disbelief.

Of course as a business student I had no problem with suspension of disbelief. "Okay it is like our world but instead of investing all their consumer research into frivolous crap like phones with applications they instead poured all their money into Virtual Reality, Man/Machine Interface, Biotechnology, and Space Colonization." One of the biggest problems my group had was with HOW FAST humanity had progressed in 70 years -- until you've lived something like that (ala our RL grandparents) it is jarring to think about the pace of technology. Seriously, something like 10 orbital habitats and now a Mars colony in the span of 70 years?

[Doc Byte]

Please keep the posts in line with the subject of this thread. Shadowslang for example has nothing to do with Catalyst Game Labs. Open another thread boys. That's why we've got so much space. I'd much rather this thread not get bloated down. Thanks.-F4.0

Sorry. Please let me just finish my thought and I'll stop the OT immediately.

and turn the game into a political statement?

No, just opening new playgrounds for evil corps vs. eco-activists and conflicts between low lands like Bangladesh or Oceania and industrial countries. Maybe some corp fights (and runs) for a thawing Antarctica.

--

Now, BTT. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dixie Flatline]

Crap. I posted before I saw the admin no-OT talk. Sorry. Very, very sorry. I won't OT any more.

To me it's not a "grounded in reality" issue but it has something to do with suspension of disbelief. Prä-SR4 was based on the mid to late 80s. However SR's set in a near future based on our own. While I agee that SR's a parallel universe it was increasingly hard to take SR seriously when e.g. the iPhone became better than a cyberdeck in some aspects. SR simply needed an update for sustaining the suspension of disbelief.

Okay, I'll state my major problem with the tech in Shadowrun.

Hacking is too f*cking easy in character, and breaks the paradigm of ubiquitous data.

There I said it.

I put myself in a situation where I think like someone who wants to secure data from even casual attacks, and my solution is, time and again, to either take it off the matrix completely, or spend copious amounts of money on security software, or hire someone to browse my system, real time, looking for intruders.

For every rational, real-world-inspired security solution, there's an instant, spiffy program you can buy/pirate/download online that end-runs around that. Encryption is utterly useless and no replacement apparently was researched in 10-20 years since encryption was destroyed (which I find hard to believe). Firewalls? Hah! Go down to the stuffer shack and buy a program to bypass most of those buggers. While you're at it, hell, go ahead and hack the stuffer shacks' point of sale system and score some credits or ultra-cheap merchandise. Why not? It's not like anything they do can really, seriously stop you if they're linked to the matrix at all. Every game I've run with a hacker PC they just hack sh*t randomly to screw with people, steal things, and run amuck, because they know that very few people are hackers or are capable of resisting their efforts. It'd be like if the street sammy decided to walk down the street and murder at random, because the player knew the rules as written couldn't provide a law enforcement response he couldn't just defeat out of hand. Having a Hand of GOD operative hunt you down for hacking stuffer shacks, or every single commlink you try to hack being armed with an agent and high level ICE is just silly. I don't mind the concept of a spider, but it seems like the approach of actually hacking back at an intruding hacker is akin to trying to eat an elephant with an olive fork. Log the problem connection/account, block it entirely, shut your firewall down if it's a severe enough security breach, and then repair the damage.

It seems utterly insane. The paradigm of real world balance seems broken, skewed to the side of "attack" instead of "defense". The real world paradigm is that every time an exploit is generated, even the other black hat hackers will attempt to find ways to block that exploit, simply to be the person who did it. I mean, a few years ago DDOS attacks from botnets were *the* way to bring down even large portions of the internet. Now it's relatively straightforward to configure strategic routers to be more or less resistant to anything other than a custom designed DDOS. While exploits will always predate countermeasures by the very nature of the game, countermeasures *must* keep up with and seal off exploits, otherwise the flawed system will be abandoned. This is the first, primary, and most important axiom of internet technology. If a flaw exists, it is a critical/fatal flaw, and the flaw can not be fixed, it will be (usually quickly) superseded by technology that *will* plug that hole. I simply don't see how a data-driven economy could function within SR4's current matrix rules.

Maybe I totally missed it, but the more I dig into the matrix side of shadowrun as the editions go by, the less interested I am. AR was awesome, but it's also the most readily open way to exploit ANY shadowrun team (since the benefits are so great) without a dedicated hacker that has better software and dice pools than the other hacker.

Shadowrun 4th has made me into something that I never thought I'd be: A neo-luddite in a cyberpunk setting.