The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[JM Hardy]

So....with all the Freelancers leaving...

Is this a good time to try and break into the CGL SR Freelancer pool?
Mr. Hardy, care to tell us what you look for in Freelancers?
And how we, too, can help fill the influx of vacancies?(Which seems to be ALL the SR writers except Bull
and, maybe, Synner)

I first want to say that the pool is not empty. I'll certainly miss those who have left, and I hope some of them will write for Shadwrin again, but there remains writing talent out there hard at work.

Second, if you want to break into the freelancer pool, the best way to do it is to get me a writing sample. You can PM me if you'd like to express your interest, and we'll go from there. What I look for in a writing sample is that it is interesting and has good energy. Shadowrun writing can be a lot of things, but it should never, ever be boring. Show me that you can be clear, get your point across (whatever it may be) and write interesting stuff, and we'll go from there!

Jason H.

[Method]

So can somebody summarize who is or is not with CGL anymore?

[Dwight]

So can somebody summarize who is or is not with CGL anymore?

I don't think so, yet. The situation seems...fluid.

[LurkerOutThere]

And you'd be mistaken. I had a hand as writer or developer in pretty much every project since Dragons of the Sixth World as did Rob Boyle, and in fact at least a couple of my projects for Catalyst as developer have yet to see the light of day. Serves me right for taking a break. A year and I'm already forgotten

My point wasn't that there was not going to be any commonalities between DoSW and System Failure but that there has been turnover before and will be again.

[Bull]

EDIT: Psst, Bull, I worked for FASA too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I knew I was forgetting someone, though I was mainly listing folks who were still freelancing for CGL in the last year or so. I knew you'd bowed out a while back, but wasn't sure when. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

So there's a few of us fogey's around, but... we're a dwindling lot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Dwindling faster now, even.

Me. I was quite involved during the end of FASA's run, from Man & Machine onward.

Man, I've got to start dressing differently or something; I'm blending in with the scenery again....

YOu know, I need to stop posting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I'm apparently just an idiot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

*sigh* All I know is this whole situation has had my ulcer and acid reflux flaring something fierce, and has given me a headache that's not gone away all week (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

Anyways, my point had been that while there was a few of us still around after all these years, that there is and always has been a pretty high turnover rate, for good or for ill.

Bull

[LouP]

Hi Adam,

You're missing Carl Sargent, who was developer briefly before Mulvihill, and there was a period of time after Peter Taylor where myself/Jennifer/John Dunn split development duties until Jason Hardy could be hired.

Actually, while technically Carl Sargent had the job for a (very) short time, it's probably more accurate to leave him out of the game's history in terms of influence. I don't even remember if FASA published any SR products with Carl listed as the developer (Threats maybe?).


Take Care,

Lou Prosperi

[Bull]

Hi Adam,

Actually, while technically Carl Sargent had the job for a (very) short time, it's probably more accurate to leave him out of the game's history in terms of influence. I don't even remember if FASA published any SR products with Carl listed as the developer (Threats maybe?).

Take Care,

Lou Prosperi

Hey Lou (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Carl actually developed Virtual Reality 2.0, and is credited under Developer as "Carl Sargent, w/ Mike Mulvihill".

From what I remember Mike telling me once, about 3/4 of the book was done under Carl when he was acting as Interim Developer while they were interiewing folks, and Mike just finihsed the project up when he got hired.

Bull

[Bull]

I don't think so, yet. The situation seems...fluid.

Yeah, I don't think it'll be really clear for another couple weeks yet who all is still "standing".

I can only speak for myself, I'm still here. I really despise the politics and the business side of the whole mess, honestly. I'm here because it's a game I love, it's a game I love to work on in any capacity, and it's something that I'd like to contribute to and hopefully make better. Anything else is gravy. I've been through 3 different owners, 3 different published, 4+ Line Developers, and I don't plan on going anywhere until they bury me. One way or another (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull

[The Jake]

Since we're on the topic, I submitted my paperwork back to Jennifer 20/7/2009 and never heard anything back....

- J.

[Stahlseele]

So, do we have an official list of who left and who is still with CGL?

[raben-aas]

(EDIT: uh, ah, I lost the quote to which post I'm replying to. Ah, never mind).

This may be nitpicking, but not ALL Freelancers are leaving. I think the number of freelancers working for SR that was guesstimated here may be about right (a dozen or so). I think if I add up the freelancers who left I get ... uh ... about 1/4? Sure that is bad enough. But it ain't the end of the (6th) world one way or the other.

If we can trust in one thing than that CGL will do its utmost to solve the issue, and that paying the freelancers and getting an agreement with Topps will be their two prime concerns. Why? Because nothing else makes sense! And yes, 850.000$ is no small amount of cash, but I imagine any corp financially big enough that you can actually take 850.000$ WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING may not be THAT bad off.

And if "history" proves me a fool, than so be it. I am a dumb person. That's how I became a freelancer for RPG publishers in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

AAS

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Just there is a slight difference between simple turnover and the whole thing going nuclear.

[raben-aas]

Yes, but as long as everyone is guessing the nuclear outfall with an oil gauge it MAY be a little bit early to call quits on CGL/SR.

[Tycho]

And yes, 850.000$ is no small amount of cash, but I imagine any corp financially big enough that you can actually take 850.000$ WITHOUT ANYONE NOTICING may not be THAT bad off.

Or there is nobody there in the accountants office.

The point is: All the freelancers still working with CGL will also work with a new company. All the freelancer that left will likely never work with CGL again (and i cannot blame them for doing so). So the best solution for SR is that CGL dies quick and makes the turnover to a new company as easy as possible...

cya
Tycho

[Bull]

Or there is nobody there in the accountants office.

The point is: All the freelancers still working with CGL will also work with a new company. All the freelancer that left will likely never work with CGL again (and i cannot blame them for doing so). So the best solution for SR is that CGL dies quick and makes the turnover to a new company as easy as possible...

cya
Tycho

No.

Who says that whoever gets the license has any interest in working with the former freelancers? Who says they're not going to gut the game and remake it in some horrible image. Before you say "No, who would do that?", stop and look at the Microsoft SR Video Game. The developers were well aware of the "real" Shadowrun game, they were well aware of the fact that the fans weren't going to like the changes. And they did it anyways.

THere's no guarantee anyone will even pick up the license. We don't know how much Topps is charging CGL, and we don't know what it's worth to anyone else. Someone might get it and redo it under their own rules set. Shadowrun D20. Shadowrun GURPS. Who knows. They could come up with a completely new system. They might reboot it. They might hack it apart and destroy everything that made it fun. They might decide to replace metahumans with Furries.

No, someone else buying it right away is not the best thing for the game. It has a very slim chance of being "The best thing for the game". It has a slightly bigger chance to be "A ok, that didn't entirely suck" thing for the game. And it has a good chance to become "Oh my god, what the frag did they do to Shadowrun??"

The best thing, honestly, is for CGL to clean up their mess, pay off the freelancers ASAP, and start getting their books out the door and new books written.

Bull

[raben-aas]

What Bull said.

Imagine, for a second, that Hasbro/WotC would buy SR (the license, yes, yes). AND turn it D20/4E. (It won't happen. But it makes my point clear)

Imagine, too, that any corp would buy SR. And than not do anything with it at all! Or just do a boardgame. That sucked. Or just hold the license so that no other corp gets it. Or that SR finally dies, so that the corps own game line gets a larger share of the market.

[Ancient History]

Imagine that the current license holder is owned by a known thief, that the freelancers haven't been paid and show no intention of being paid, that all your friends have left so you're stuck working mainly with a bunch of strangers that don't know the game, and that you don't like the direction that the line developer is trying to move the game in. I understand Bull's recalcitrance (The game must go on!), but honestly I think CGL has too many endemic problems to overcome, and at this point the ship probably deserves to sink.

[kanislatrans]

ditto what bull and raben-aas said. CGL isn't the first company to have this issue and won't be the last. My 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) is let'em clean up the mess and see how the dice roll. Hopefully when its all over someone will have learned something and the game will go on.

I too will miss those who left. Hell, the wife said one time that I talk about Adam,Jen, AH and the crew more than her.(grin)

[Tycho]

There are sure worse things than CGL keeping the SR license, but considering the events of the last days CGL keeping the license lies only slightly obove noone gets the license.

"Cleaning up the mess" involves consequences for the "co-owner" who "mingled" with the company's money. At least kick him out and if possible take legal actions against him. But following the PR release if you steal money at CGL its not such a big deal, you can still work there and do it again in the future. The people who felt, that there is something wrong with this that behaivor, seem to have left the company (which I totally understand). To make that clear: If your your boss steals money from the companys accounts, you dont say: "Sure, but he is now trying to put it back, so he is trying to fix the problem." This man is the problem himself.

Also according to some statements made here and in the other threads, the fee for the freelancers for about 50pages of text is about 1500$, so I can asume, that on sourcebook with the typical lengh will be about 5000$ of Freelancer fees. If CGL does not even have this ammount to pay for Vice, DotA, RW and the Sourcbooks currently in the pipeline, how should they even pay for the licence?

Too many good freelancers are allready lost and I hope they try to pull something of to get the license themself and found a new Gaming Studio. If they do, I will do my best to support them and I hope the rest of the community will do as well.

CGL is like a car manufacturer that does not pay his supliers but want to sell cars. The Freelancer can survive without CGL (since most of them work for a living and write for SR by passion), but CGL can not survive without freelancers.

The ones that left since Peter was forced to leave CGL were frankly the foundation of SR4 writing. If they do not come back, SR will not be the same game...

cya
Tycho

[Warlordtheft]

Imagine, too, that any corp would buy SR. And than not do anything with it at all! Or just do a boardgame. That sucked. Or just hold the license so that no other corp gets it. Or that SR finally dies, so that the corps own game line gets a larger share of the market.

Slightly OT-but as an example: One of my favorite table top minis game (Warzone, the Mutant Chronicles IP) got picked up by Fantasy Flight Games (originally Target games-then a smaller US based company). They basically dropped warzone (pweter minis) and started a whole new line of prepainted plastic minis in a different scale (35mm). One of the biggest disappointments ever as they did not even try to incorporate the old models and scrapped my favorite faction (Cybertronic).

[JM Hardy]

I'm cross-posting this from the Future of Shadowrun thread, since the two threads have a distinct overlap:

So I see at least two ways this could continue. One is to go down the path where we try to characterize the freelancers who continue to work on Shadowrun. Are they knowledgeable enough? Skilled enough? Love Shadowrun enough? Love [x] style of Shadowrun as much as I do? And we could go back and forth on that a while.

Or we could decide that the only accurate way to judge the future of Shadowrun is to base our theories on reality instead of competing characterizations of people whom we may not know. So we stick to three main criteria:

1) Does Catalyst still have the license to publish Shadowrun books?
2) Are books coming out?
3) Do I like the books that are coming out?

I know it's not as immediately gratifying as speculation, but that's the only way we we'll know if Shadowrun has a future at CGL. I have my opinion about the freelancers I'm working with, and I'm very excited about the text they've turned in. And our art director loves Shadowrun and is doing awesome work. But I don't expect anyone to take my word on those points. Watch what comes out, see if you like it, and then you can better decide if Shadowrun and CGL have a future together.

Do I expect everyone on Dumpshock to like what will be coming out? No, but then I can't remember any product ever than met with unified praise across all of Dumpshockia. Indeed, if Dumpshock ever unites in praise of anything, I believe the Seventh Seal will open, and many of us will be sitting around wondering why all those nice people we used to know have suddenly disappeared.

Throughout the past seven months, including the previous eight days, I've been working to produce quality products for Shadowrun. That work hasn't stopped. And as I said, those products are the best indicators we'll have of Shadowrun's future.

Jason H.

[raben-aas]

What Jason said. Especially the bit about the Art Director of SR doing an awesome job (and this I DO know by 1st hand experience).

(BTW: LOL about the seventh seal. )

[Tycho]

Or we could decide that the only accurate way to judge the future of Shadowrun is to base our theories on reality instead of competing characterizations of people whom we may not know. So we stick to three main criteria:

1) Does Catalyst still have the license to publish Shadowrun books?

For the time being yes, after Mai: Who knows?

2) Are books coming out?

Seems to me, that at the moment it is more like "books are disapearing from the stores" and it has been a while since the last book.

3) Do I like the books that are coming out?

sure, but all the books out there (or not any more as for Vice, RW and DotA) have Peter's name under development and many freelancer, who just left under writing.

cya
Tycho

[Dread Moores]

Imagine that the current license holder is owned by a known thief

Topps is stealing?

[JM Hardy]

Seems to me, that at the moment it is more like "books are disapearing from the stores" and it has been a while since the last book.

The last book, Vice, had a street date of February 23rd. So it wasn't that long ago, and I know people in Catalyst are working to get it back on the streets as soon as possible.

Jason H.