The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread Options

[Semerkhet]

edit: Just noticed the moderator post. Have redacted to avoid further thread-jacking.

[Ancient History]

No matter what language Randall Bills or Jason Hardy or anyone at CGL chooses to dress it up in, the very basic assertion is that there was corruption at the very top. While they may say that steps have or are being taken to address that, it is very clear that no one has lost their job over this, which at minimum would be the appropriate consequence for their actions. Several employees of the company have left because of their personal ethics over this issue. Most freelancers, who have not been paid, are rightly upset not only a the "financial mismanagement" but by the apparent acceptance and lack of action taken by other senior members of the company.

So yeah, I don't feel that I'm wrong to call Loren Coleman a thief. That's my opinion from my understanding of the facts, and nothing the company has posted so far has corrected that view. I believe that the correct course of action would have been, at the very least, to remove him from the company, not keep him on as president. Instead, CGL has attempted to whitewash a situation which has been getting steadily worse for freelancers and fans, which I see as dishonest. I personally feel that Jason Hardy was dishonest in some of his statements to the freelancers, and this directly led to my termination of contracts with IMR/CGL.

Yes, I'm bitter. I never particularly cared for Jason Hardy as a line developer and this probably biased me against many of the statements he has made. Yes, these are my opinions, I do not have all the facts, and I could well be wrong. I have no proof to back up my convictions, only the information that has come trickling through the freelancer rumormill. However, I have greater faith in the integrity of those people that have left CGL's employ than those who remain, and even based only on the public statements CGL has made, I do not feel that CGL has taken the correct actions. I think the company is essentially done for, or should be barring a miracle, and that all the efforts at public ass-covering are only making the ending more confusing, drawn-out, and painful for everyone.

So, that's my 0.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) on the subject.

[DireRadiant]

Three Strikes and you're out! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Careful analysis of past performance provokes interesting thoughts.

[Dwight]

They might decide to replace metahumans with Furries.

Shadowrun survived that once, it'd survive it again I wager.


P.S. Some fans/writers *cough*Jong*cough* enjoyed it I might add. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[raben-aas]

Ents for SR5!

[emouse]

Vampires and werewolves are the current big thing, so think major HMHVV breakout, turning most everyone in the sixth world!

[raben-aas]

OK. Vampire Ents for SR5!

http://rabenwelten.files.wordpress.com/201...byaas.jpg?w=455

[hobgoblin]

crap when you cant tell if its AH or FT thats posting, its time to grab the bag and leave town...

[Ice Hammer]

I want to add my voice to the chorus of folks who still support Catalyst. Catalyst has proven that they can handle Shadowrun with the respect, care and the attention that it deserves. The anniversary edition is evidence of that. That in itself, for me, gives me reason to feel that Catalyst deserves a second chance. I don't think any other gaming company would be able to put out that quality of product any time in the near future. And true, good people have left Catalyst; people that were responsible for Catalyst's success. And that is a damn shame. I deeply respected the people that left. But at the same time, I have faith that Catalyst will find good people to continue the work that they started, and will not have to start over from scratch like another gaming company would. I have faith that new freelancers that are brought in will treat the property with respect, and will rejuvenate the line with new ideas (whether or not those ideas will be good in the long run should be left for the dumpshock folks to debate (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) ). That is my opinion on the matter.

[Demonseed Elite]

I'm not going to pretend to know what's best for Shadowrun's future. I don't think anyone can really know that at this stage, including CGL staff. Fortunately, since my personal fallout with CGL was over a year ago, I'm a bit detached from the current drama. I don't know the whole truth of what is going on with Loren Coleman and CGL's finances. What I do know is that CGL was treating freelancers poorly long before that. And while I'm certain there will always be freelancers to fill the vacancies, that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for the game. But that's for the fans to decide, not anyone else. If it turns out to be worse for the game, sales will decline.

I am just sad that Shadowrun has lost a lot of great talent and that new freelancers are telling me they are running into the same disappointments that I faced a long time ago. It just shouldn't be that way.

[JM Hardy]

I am just sad that Shadowrun has lost a lot of great talent and that new freelancers are telling me they are running into the same disappointments that I faced a long time ago. It just shouldn't be that way.

QFT. I'm trying to move Shadowrun forward, but I know plenty of mistakes have been made that shouldn't have happened. However, I should point out that I wouldn't be still trying to move forward if I did not think people were working to address those mistakes.

Jason H.

[BaronSameday]

ummmmmmmm

[raben-aas]

Yes! Lets move SR forward. With VAMPIRE ENTS!
(Sorry, its getting late here, and I'm headed for home)

AAS

[MindandPen]

No matter what language Randall Bills or Jason Hardy or anyone at CGL chooses to dress it up in, the very basic assertion is that there was corruption at the very top. While they may say that steps have or are being taken to address that, it is very clear that no one has lost their job over this, which at minimum would be the appropriate consequence for their actions. Several employees of the company have left because of their personal ethics over this issue. Most freelancers, who have not been paid, are rightly upset not only a the "financial mismanagement" but by the apparent acceptance and lack of action taken by other senior members of the company.

So yeah, I don't feel that I'm wrong to call Loren Coleman a thief. That's my opinion from my understanding of the facts, and nothing the company has posted so far has corrected that view. I believe that the correct course of action would have been, at the very least, to remove him from the company, not keep him on as president. Instead, CGL has attempted to whitewash a situation which has been getting steadily worse for freelancers and fans, which I see as dishonest. I personally feel that Jason Hardy was dishonest in some of his statements to the freelancers, and this directly led to my termination of contracts with IMR/CGL.

Yes, I'm bitter. I never particularly cared for Jason Hardy as a line developer and this probably biased me against many of the statements he has made. Yes, these are my opinions, I do not have all the facts, and I could well be wrong. I have no proof to back up my convictions, only the information that has come trickling through the freelancer rumormill. However, I have greater faith in the integrity of those people that have left CGL's employ than those who remain, and even based only on the public statements CGL has made, I do not feel that CGL has taken the correct actions. I think the company is essentially done for, or should be barring a miracle, and that all the efforts at public ass-covering are only making the ending more confusing, drawn-out, and painful for everyone.

So, that's my 0.02 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) on the subject.

I'm new to posting on this forum but have lurked for quite some time.

In a prior life, I helped several local (and rather large) publishing companies deal with "distressed" acquisitions. CGL would fit in such a category.

Here is how it would work:

The new owners would approach Topps first and negotiate the new license agreement. Topps and the new company would approach CGL and basically offer to buy them out. If CGL refused, Topps would not extend the license, or Topps would terminate it for cause (embezzlement and "going concerns" issues would usually be grounds, but I have not read the terms of the CGL/Topps license). I imagine the continued activities on the parts of the CGL staff to produce books is directly related to wanting to keep the license.

Once the new company had CGL, they would fire all the management they did not like or want to keep (this was often my job, and generally, people like me are ruthless fraggers), they would pay all the outstanding bills, and, in this case, if criminal charges were warranted, they would see what they could do about those. To the public, CGL still exists, just a new management team.

Over the course of a year, the brand would change to the new owners, and life would go on.

Why someone would do this, specifically in publishing is very simple, money. CGL obviously made money, and if a larger publishing company, especially one that was used to publishing multiple book formats and had both digital and print facilities, were interested, the cost of printing would go down, which means margins would go up.

One of the people I used to work with made the point that he was still kicking himself for not having bought other firms when they were available, and he likes Shadowrun.

Do I know if anything like this is going to happen? No. Will I be talking to my friends to see if they have any thoughts? Absolutely.

Bottom line - if CGL rights their ship, pays the freelancers, and produces products that the fan base like and buy, they will survive. Even some of the old timers may come back. If they don't, then there is no telling what will happen. In an ideal world, someone buys it up and things keep moving, but there are no promises. Our best hope is that CGL clean up their mess and earns back the trust of the community.

[Stahlseele]

Would labeling anybody Excommunicate Traitoris be going to far?

[tete]

I think you're also perceiving problems that might exist in the handling of Shadowrun and believing they exist throughout the company.

I would say thats true now that the Cthuhlutech guys are talking about taking CGL to court over non-payment and breaking a cease and desist agreement they had back in January. Its not just Shadowrun that has problems.

[Cergorach]

I would say thats true now that the Cthuhlutech guys are talking about taking CGL to court over non-payment and breaking a cease and desist agreement they had back in January. Its not just Shadowrun that has problems.

Do you have a source for that, can't find anything on the Cthuhlutech forums.

[emouse]

I would say thats true now that the Cthuhlutech guys are talking about taking CGL to court over non-payment and breaking a cease and desist agreement they had back in January. Its not just Shadowrun that has problems.

Where did you get that info? Over the weekend WildFire had a very 'wait and see' attitude.

Or is this conflating the partially incorrect ICV2 news item that CGL responded to and ICV2 ended up pulling?

Edit: And has since been reposed with more correct information and CGL's response to the original, "there has been no halt to sales of any Cthulhu Tech products."

[kzt]

crap when you cant tell if its AH or FT thats posting, its time to grab the bag and leave town...

Begins to make you think that Frank was right all along, eh?

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Vampire Ents for SR5!

Already in SR4: Plant-Blood-Spirit.

[Ancient History]

CthulhuTech says:

We’ve received many mails recently inquiring about the availability of the Core Book and Vade Mecum. Most people can’t get them through regular distribution right now. It’s true – they are both out of print, due to renegotiations with our publisher.

However, not for long! We expect to see the Core Book back on shelves in the next few months, with Vade Mecum following before early summer. We’ll be back in the normal production swing soon and Ancient Enemies should be part of that batch!

[Demonseed Elite]

QFT. I'm trying to move Shadowrun forward, but I know plenty of mistakes have been made that shouldn't have happened. However, I should point out that I wouldn't be still trying to move forward if I did not think people were working to address those mistakes.

Jason H.

And I would like to believe those mistakes are being addressed on a long-term basis (and not just as an short-term fix), but I've been involved with three Shadowrun license holders now and I've heard that exact statement a few times already, including from Catalyst years ago.

[emouse]

RE: Ancient's quote from the WildFire site

That would seem to fall into the slow-to-print issues that CGL has had for a while now, which is possibly related to what has been going on with their finances? The post is not specific; the 'renegotiations' could involve some sort of withholding by WF to get CGL to pay on something, or it could involve WF trying to get CGL to up the print run or reprint certain material beyond whatever existing contract might exist.

The notice was posted March 11th, another sign that the issue in question might have been known about and was being dealt with well before being made public?

[JM Hardy]

And I would like to believe those mistakes are being addressed on a long-term basis (and not just as an short-term fix), but I've been involved with three Shadowrun license holders now and I've heard that exact statement a few times already, including from Catalyst years ago.

I can't dispute that, unfortunately. Mistakes have been made by various license holders. As I mentioned earlier, the only proof of how the new processes will work will be what happens next. If Catalyst cannot get its house in order and cannot pay freelancers, it will deserve what it gets, and what it gets will not be good.

Jason H.

[nezumi]

Really, either path is a gamble.

Stick with CGL, who so far has shown itself to be of questionable integrity, and who has lost the loyalty of some of the best writers Shadowrun ever had. IF they right their boat, they're going to be taking on a lot more freelancers to fill out the ranks. What quality will their work be? That depends a lot on management and the line developer. We're gambling they'll keep more or less the same view as has been established. CGL has made some good products. I don't normally consider buying books for an edition of a game I don't play, but the CGL products look to have been good stuff. But with this turnover, past performance is not a dependable indicator of future performance.

Move to someone else and... well, even a bigger gamble. I don't totally understand the Topps/Fan Pro relationship, but Fan Pro has taken good care of us. Would they sell to Hasbro? Would they hold onto it for some little new guy? (CGL was a 'little new guy' when it acquired Shadowrun - but it advertised a lot of passion for the brand name, which it held to.) If they sell it to someone else, I think we can bet on a new edition in 2011/2012. If it's new management, maybe a few of the older freelancers will come back/follow along (I don't know AH personally, but from what I've seen of his work, Shadowrun is in his blood, and he couldn't stay away for long, and I think Bull "comes with" the property (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). But what would fifth edition look like? It almost certainly will take another step away from SR3, and won't be like SR4. It'll be... different. Good different or bad is still just a toss of the dice.


Choose between the evil you know or the evil you don't. Looking at the odds though, CGL seems to be the safer bet.