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> The Great CGL Rumors and Speculation Thread
Tanegar
post Mar 17 2010, 12:43 AM
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If CGL does lose the rights to Shadowrun, I hope they get snapped right up by a developer who will do right by the franchise (no matter who that might be; I'm not wild about WotC, but I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt). I also hope everybody from CGL lands on their feet (with the exception of any putative embezzler(s). Finally, I really, really, REALLY hope that the SR4A limited edition that I preordered over a year ago does actually find its way into my hands. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Penta
post Mar 17 2010, 12:44 AM
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Because to Topps, who make billions off of baseball cards, we are not even a blip on the radar.
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BishopMcQ
post Mar 17 2010, 12:46 AM
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Topps owns the BattleTech and Shadowrun licenses for print products. Microsoft had owned the electronic rights, and I am not sure if they sold or simply sublicensed those rights to Smith and Tinker.

InMediaRes Productions, LLC DBA Catalyst Game Labs has licensed the BattleTech and Shadowrun rights.
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nylanfs
post Mar 17 2010, 12:47 AM
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I would say that it's valid speculation on who would have the cash and "think" that they can handle the game world. I can see somebody in upper management at WotC or Hasbro thinking they could take it. I don't think they could UNLESS they brought in a bunch of outside designers (or horribly mutilate the system).

White Wolf is a possibility, they deal with dark game worlds. Paizo is a possibility as well, several of their adventure paths for 3.5 D&D and their Pathfinder system show that they have the creativity to deal with twists and turns. Crafty has experience with modern settings, but other than those I can't think of any other game publishers that might pick it up off the top of my head.
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the_dunner
post Mar 17 2010, 12:49 AM
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QUOTE (Sengir @ Mar 16 2010, 08:41 PM) *
Alright, something that is (presumably) not based on speculation: Could somebody enlighten me on which company exactly owns or has licensed what? So far I only knew about CGL which are owned by In Media Res (headed by Coleman and Bills IIRC), now there is one more level of it?

The Shadowrun Intellectual Properties are complicated.

When FASA Interactive (a division of FASA Corp) was purchased by Microsoft, the Computer gaming rights went to FASA Studios and stayed with Microsoft. Smith & Tinker licensed those rights from Microsoft in late 2007.

When FASA Corp (the RPG company) closed their doors, the non-Computer gaming rights went to WizKids. When WizKids was purchased by Topps, those rights went to Topps. When NECA bought WizKids, Topps held onto the Shadowrun rights.

FanPro licensed the Shadowrun rights from WizKids. When FanPro ceased game production, Catalyst Game Labs, an imprint of InMediaRes, licensed the game and fiction rights initially from WizKids, and then later directly from Topps. Per a 2008 Press release, their license is up for renewal this year.
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Synner667
post Mar 17 2010, 12:54 AM
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QUOTE (nylanfs @ Mar 17 2010, 12:47 AM) *
White Wolf is a possibility, they deal with dark game worlds. Paizo is a possibility as well, several of their adventure paths for 3.5 D&D and their Pathfinder system show that they have the creativity to deal with twists and turns. Crafty has experience with modern settings, but other than those I can't think of any other game publishers that might pick it up off the top of my head.

Mongoose and Cubicle 7 have been buying up all sorts of licenses recently, and doing very well.
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Chrome Tiger
post Mar 17 2010, 01:02 AM
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QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Mar 16 2010, 08:24 PM) *
As Demonseed Elite said elsewhere, the animosity is not with the fans, it's with the company. I have the unhappy privilege of falling in with the group of freelancers that hasn't been paid yet, and it's one of the (many) reasons that I'm pretty much done with Shadowrun as a freelancer, even after the property moves to another developer (and it will; it's a very lucrative property).


My apologies, I did not mean to insinuate that the freelancers would have animosity toward the fans. I meant that if the freelancers got a little something out of it all, they would be more likely to hop on board/stay on board if things changed.
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Method
post Mar 17 2010, 01:05 AM
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Wow. That'll teach me to go to work all day and not check the boards.

If Adam J is out, I don't have high hopes for the future.

Right now my greatest hope is that the 6th World Almanac sees the light of day before the whole thing implodes (Anybody remember SoLA?). That and getting my SR4A LE would be real nice.

Speaking of: I certainly feel for the unpaid freelancers (and of course none of us really know how much CGL owes to who), but I would be surprised if unpaid freelancers represent a larger unpaid liability than all those unfilled pre-orders sold to fans...
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tsuyoshikentsu
post Mar 17 2010, 01:12 AM
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QUOTE (nylanfs @ Mar 16 2010, 05:47 PM) *
White Wolf is a possibility, they deal with dark game worlds.

This is actually a possibility worth further consideration, as WW's flagship line of nWoD is getting its own cyberpunk setting through Mirrors, a July release.

Combine that with inherent similarities between the two systems, both thematically and mechanically, and it begins to look rather likely.
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Wesley Street
post Mar 17 2010, 01:15 AM
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As a quasi-freelancer (who actually received his first paycheck from Catalyst recently) I'm disappointed that I had to hear of these mass resignations through a public message board. I have no reason to doubt Frank at his word and I'm sure the truth will come to light very soon once the spin control and rumor-mongering die down.

There's no reason to believe that Shadowrun in its 4th ed. incarnation will cease to continue. Perhaps with another publisher after a long delay or perhaps it will be business as usual in a few weeks. But it's incredibly sad that this, whatever this is, has resulted in mass resignations of recognizable names (some of whom haven't chimed in yet), especially Adam Jury, who had his finger in pretty much every Catalyst pie. I hope that Posthuman Studios held onto legal ownership of the Eclipse Phase game line as it would be a shame to see a property with that kind of potential disappear. CthulhuTech , a new interest of mine, is co-owned by Wildfire, LLC so hopefully it will survive this as well.

For the creator, game production is always a labor of love. Other than the upper echelons and the lucky entrepreneurs, few can survive on the game designer paychecks alone. SR will continue on at some point but it's obvious a lot of trust has been broken. Whoever is responsible for breaking said trust is going to have some major karmic backlash heading his way soon.

You may continue with your nonsensical WotC-r-teh-suck posts now.
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Mr. Man
post Mar 17 2010, 01:16 AM
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You guys are all way off base.

My bet: Shadowrun will end up with Weisman again.

How could he pass up the chance to have both the computer and paper rights again?

Seriously.
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Patrick Goodman
post Mar 17 2010, 01:16 AM
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QUOTE (Method @ Mar 16 2010, 07:05 PM) *
Speaking of: I certainly feel for the unpaid freelancers (and of course none of us really know how much CGL owes to who), but I would be surprised if unpaid freelancers represent a larger unpaid liability than all those unfilled pre-orders sold to fans...

Perhaps, perhaps not. I know I am owed several hundreds of dollars. I know of freelancers who are owed several thousands of dollars, each. That's just for work on Shadowrun. I can only imagine that there are similar stories on the Battletech side of the house. It's all anecdotal and I don't have any numbers beyond what I've been told by friends who've not been paid, but still....

The unpaid freelancers might not be a larger unpaid liability, but they're certainly a longer-standing liability, and just guessing, they're probably pretty close in magnitude to the outstanding pre-orders of SR4A LE. So while you might be surprised, I hope it's not too big a surprise.
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ColdEquation
post Mar 17 2010, 01:21 AM
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This is...disheartening. I just got back into Shadowrun this past year. It's my favorite game. I often jokingly say that Shadowrun is my religion.

But it's not the first time this has happened. I believe that Catalyst may not pull through, but Shadowrun will. It's simply too strong of an IP to let hang. This may mean that we have to go through another dark age, but things will survive.

Right now, I hope for the sake of the Shadowrun staff, and indeed the entire Catalyst staff, that you all get to keep your jobs and incomes. Catalyst has been good to my game, and I'd like to see you continue to be good to it.
If the worst comes, then hopefully you all and Shadowrun can find a new home.
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Method
post Mar 17 2010, 01:27 AM
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QUOTE (Mr. Man @ Mar 16 2010, 06:16 PM) *
My bet: Shadowrun will end up with Weisman again.
If only we should be so lucky!

QUOTE (Patrick Goodman @ Mar 16 2010, 06:16 PM) *
So while you might be surprised, I hope it's not too big a surprise.
You and me both.
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crash2029
post Mar 17 2010, 01:35 AM
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Is it just me or does it seem like the rumored corporate intrigue surrounding SR and CGL is just begging to be made into a 'run?

Like maybe Miracle Shooter's latest patch has a bug in the AR coding. It causes the Miracle Shooter application to register smartlink signals as designated players and paints them as AR monsters. A tech noticed the glitch days before it was scheduled to go live and went to his supervisor with it. The supervisor realized he had a gold mine here and convinced the tech to stay quiet. He then shorted his stock options with Ares and made last minute arrangements to defect to Horizon with "information that Ares knowingly released software that got kids killed" as an offering. Horizon accepted and poured money into mudslinging/counter advertising against Ares in preparation for the impending media shitstorm. The problem is that the tech had a conscience and reported the glitch. Now the next boss up the Ares foodchain hires the runners to extract the defector for "questioning." The only problem is that since the glitch was corrected Horizon lost money on useless mudslinging, the stock didn't dive and now the defector owes some unfriendly Italians alot of money and he's in the wind. The runners have to find the guy and get him to the J while keeping him safe from Mafia hitsquads and other runners hired by Horizon.

I realize that this might not be the ideal place for a run idea, but seeing as this is rumored corporate skullduggery surrounding SR I couldn't resist. Sorry.
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nemafow
post Mar 17 2010, 01:37 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif) Gonna be a sad session tonight when I at least let them know that Catalyst might be going down the drain, I hope desperately not though
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TheWanderingJewe...
post Mar 17 2010, 01:37 AM
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Well......Hellfire and Damnation. This was a unpleasant surprise. It's decipher syndrome all over again (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

As thought, One might wish to consider Red Brick Limited as grabbing the SR IP....
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SCLariat
post Mar 17 2010, 01:38 AM
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Did CGL carry any type of insurance which might cover the loss? I am certainly hoping for the best.

I want to say that I've been a fan of SR for a long time, and I have a darn near complete collection from 1st edition on (I think I'm missing one or two novels.) I've even bought books in German and French just because they're SR. I went to DragonCon one year specifically to get Larry Elmore sign my first edition book. I took time out of my schedule one time to stand on the street corner in Chicago where the Bug City nuke goes off. (Pretty sad...I know.) That being said, I know that SR will soldier on. Its a great intellectual property, and I think the SR4 crew should be commended for the great job they've done in revitalizing a great product. SR4 is the best yet, and I've been continually impressed with each new book. I can only hope that this situation will be resolved quickly and we can get back to talking about our favorite game.

I'm also excited to get this week my new copy of the "Red Brick" version of Earthdawn. If Earthdawn (which Ancient History and I share a mutual love of the interconnections with SR) can survive all of the turmoil it has experienced, then I know SR won't be off the shelf long.
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MikeKozar
post Mar 17 2010, 01:40 AM
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I wonder if Steve Jackson Games is interested? They seem like a fan-friendly publisher with a long history.

What happens when/if somebody else picks up the rights? Do they get to reprint CGL/FASA books, or do those go into limbo?
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tweak
post Mar 17 2010, 01:49 AM
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This makes me sad.

I want to wish the employees the best of luck during these hard times.
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Brazilian_Shinob...
post Mar 17 2010, 01:52 AM
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I was talking to Garou about this. While I would sure love that CGL would continue with Shadowrun, let's take a look at the possibilities:

WotC won't be buying the shadowrun rights for the next 5 years at least I would say. They just closed their contract with LucasFilms to publish Star Wars RPG. The last book will be released in April and they will offer support to August. And we all know that Star Wars is much bgger than Shadowrun.


QUOTE (nylanfs @ Mar 16 2010, 09:47 PM) *
White Wolf is a possibility, they deal with dark game worlds.


WW is a possibility, but I don't know if they would have the cash and patience to buy the license and wait for the profits. Also, Garou told me that they usually keep the edition instead of making a new one (as we sure know WotC would do).


QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Mar 16 2010, 10:40 PM) *
I wonder if Steve Jackson Games is interested? They seem like a fan-friendly publisher with a long history.


I mentioned SJG too, but Garou pointed to me that they don't have any RPG material with the kind of continuity that Shadowrun has. Also, they would probably create a new edition instead of keeping the 4th.

Let's wait and see. No need to cry 'Wolf' unless we hear him howl. Right now he just barked.
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Penta
post Mar 17 2010, 01:54 AM
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QUOTE (SCLariat @ Mar 16 2010, 09:38 PM) *
Did CGL carry any type of insurance which might cover the loss? I am certainly hoping for the best.


There is not an insurance policy in the world which covers what Frank speaks of, that I know of.

It's why embezzlement is so devastating.
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Dr.Rockso
post Mar 17 2010, 01:58 AM
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Well....drek. I certainly feel silly, having pre-ordered SR4a LE a week ago...
Anyone know the odds of me seeing either my money or my book?
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Delarn
post Mar 17 2010, 02:06 AM
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QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Mar 16 2010, 09:58 PM) *
Well....drek. I certainly feel silly, having pre-ordered SR4a LE a week ago...
Anyone know the odds of me seeing either my money or my book?


Odds are good it's still rumors ...
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JM Hardy
post Mar 17 2010, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE (Dr.Rockso @ Mar 16 2010, 08:58 PM) *
Well....drek. I certainly feel silly, having pre-ordered SR4a LE a week ago...
Anyone know the odds of me seeing either my money or my book?


The LEs are on a boat making their way slowly to the US. Nothing that has happened has affected the existence of the boat or the LEs. Once they're in, they'll be shipped.

Jason H.
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