Cyberskulls, Strength and Agility, ...? Options

[Umidori]

As per the Rules, the head does indeed count as a limb in this case.

By this logic, could you potentially have five cyber skulls, one for each limb slot? You'd be popular in certain types of orgies.

~Umidori

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

By this logic, could you potentially have five cyber skulls, one for each limb slot? You'd be popular in certain types of orgies.

~Umidori

Such a Very, Very Bad Image... You should be punished for that...

Keep the Faith

[Stahlseele]

By this logic, could you potentially have five cyber skulls, one for each limb slot? You'd be popular in certain types of orgies.

~Umidori

Nope, only Arms and Legs can be made Modular.

[OneTrikPony]

for the sake of argument, exactly which muscles are augmented with increased strength and agility in the cyber skull?

Is the spine part of the skull or part of the torso?

If you have a full cyber arm does that mean you have also replaced your deltoid, pectoral, and latisimus muscles along with your clavical and scapula since they are involved in articulation of the arm?

[Stahlseele]

Neck Muscles.
Yes, if you have a complete Replacement-Arm, then you have a replacement-Shoulder as well usually.

[OneTrikPony]

Neck Muscles.
Yes, if you have a complete Replacement-Arm, then you have a replacement-Shoulder as well usually.

Since there is no exact information in the books I'm curious why you rule that way?

Pectorals, tapezius and Latisimus muscles, clavical and scapula bones are components of the torso. Why would you cut out a quarter of the mass of the torso to replace an arm lost at the shoulder? I can see that the Deltoids might be involved when replacing an arm but not necessarily in all cases.

Are the esophagus trachea and tongue part of a cyberskull too? What about the cervical vertebra? Is it necessary to replace the neck when replacing the skull?

If all of the muscles that articulate the head and the arms are part of the Cyberskull and cyber arms, then does that mean that the only muscles that are part of the torso are the abdominals and the spinal erectors?

[Stahlseele]

I extrapolate this from the fact that in SR3 enhancements above level 3 cost additional essence because the structural integrity had to be extended to further parts of the torso and that you can't have a completely modular arm only a lower arm.
Skulls is anything above shoulders for me.
Arms include shoulders.
Torso is anything between shoulders and Groin.

[OneTrikPony]

I extrapolate this from the fact that in SR3 enhancements above level 3 cost additional essence because the structural integrity had to be extended to further parts of the torso and that you can't have a completely modular arm only a lower arm.
Skulls is anything above shoulders for me.
Arms include shoulders.
Torso is anything between shoulders and Groin.

Hmm. My understanding of the extra essence costs of high strength limbs in SR3, and the enhancement limits in SR4 is exactly oposit. It seems to me that the reason enhancements above three cost more is because at that point it's necessary to involve muscles and bones that are part of the torso.

so everything outboard of the sternum and spine are part of the arm but you don't include the pelvis and related muscles in the cyber leg? And, even though the cyberskull is described as just a shell for the skull you include all of the bones and soft tissues of the neck?

Guess we just have diferent interpretations of anatomy. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

The Torso itself is only a shell too, mind you.
But there still have to be moving parts in there.

[OneTrikPony]

I fully agree. For my 25000¥ the torso includes the pelvis, all of the spine and all of the muscles that originate from the torso. It doesn't make sense to me to call the neck part of the skull or the chest and back part of the arm. I'm not minimizing the importance of the core muscles of the trunk, in actions of the body but I don't think it's standard procedure when replacing limbs to do more than the limb.

[Ol' Scratch]

I've always had issues with the default rules for cyberlimbs. The house rule I use for conflicting limb values is taking the average of the four limbs that do the brunt of the work (legs and arms), and ignore the torso and skull. Those two "limbs" give benefits in other ways, such as increasing your maximum attribute rating for Strength with your real limbs (for the torso), or simply giving you extra armor and storage capacity. The latter of which is the real benefit that cyberlimbs provide. I also don't require attribute ratings on the skull and torso.

It just makes a lot more sense to me.

[Tanegar]

I also don't require attribute ratings on the skull and torso.

You mean you can have a body with no Body? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[knasser]

You mean you can have a body with no Body? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

*does soft shoe shuffle singing I'____ ain't got no-boooody*

[Ol' Scratch]

Nope. I mean the Torso and Skull gain the benefits of the averaged score from the other limbs and your natural meat stats (where applicable). They don't have independent attributes anymore than an Armor Jacket or Helmet (two examples of other shells) do.

[Stahlseele]

That would certainly be one way to house-rule this issue, yes.