The CGL situation p3 Options

[augmentin]

EDIT: double post. Sorry, rookie mistake.

Concept is post #1000 on bottom of page 40: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=910535

This post has been edited by augmentin: Apr 5 2010, 07:15 PM

[LurkerOutThere]

But according to what's been posted, these checks are for only a select group of freelancers. Obstensibly, payments are made in order of the importance of their projects; the cynical part of me says they're going out to those who are toeing the party line.

Here i thought i'd repost this for you in case in some weird funk state you were reprinting your own inaccurate guesses as facts and inside information instead of just trolling.

[Ancient History]

Except Tiger Eyes herself stated she was one of those folks that got a partial payment presumably for vice and midnight, (although only she could answer to what). There was an accusation made: by you that was pretty much immediately refuted, stay classy by the way.

You presume incorrectly.

For the record, I am receiving some payments along with quite a few other freelancers who forced the hand of Catalyst by withholding copyright. My beliefs may be irrelevant, but I believe that checks would not have been sent out at this time if copyrights had not been withheld. I also believe that public opinion - your all's opinion! - helped push CGL to do the right thing. The people I mentioned before, the other people I know are waiting for payment? I do not believe that they have all received payments. All the contracts I'm owed for - including Vice and Corporate Guide - I am not being paid for at this time. I do not know how the decision was made on which contracts to pay, which not to pay, and I won't speculate on those decisions. I only know that decisions were made. I'm getting paid for a few of my contracts (Dusk, Seattle 2072, and 6th World Almanac).

[LurkerOutThere]

I'm very glad I bought both of those as PDFs when they came out.

K.

I didn't pick up midnight because dusk had left such a bad taste in my mouth, how is it, more of super goddess frosty and her gopher squad?

[Synner667]

Done right, I'd be interested in augmentin's suggestion.

But with more focus on the core of SR.

[LurkerOutThere]

Touche' AH, of course it's possible they could cut another check going forward for Midnight, my point is the checks are being sent out based on getting product out the door or keeping product out the door on shelves so far. I see no indication that trend will not continue nor do I see an indication that checks are being mailed under some grand conspiracy of loyalists vs rebels which seems to be Cain's delusion du jur.

[Matsci]

I didn't pick up midnight because dusk had left such a bad taste in my mouth, how is it, more of super goddess frosty and her gopher squad?

Frosty has to use all of her magic to power a 4th world artifact, so she never gets to throw a spell.

[Ancient History]

Touche' AH, of course it's possible they could cut another check going forward for Midnight, my point is the checks are being sent out based on getting product out the door or keeping product out the door on shelves so far. I see no indication that trend will not continue nor do I see an indication that checks are being mailed under some grand conspiracy of loyalists vs rebels which seems to be Cain's delusion du jur.

Well, I would point out - as several people already heave - that for reasons that beggar the imagination, the checks that were sent out did not cover the two books that we know are already in print and in country, Vice and Midnight. While we perhaps cannot know exactly why this is the case, it does seem pretty bloody stupid on someone's part and not part of a concerted effort to actually get product out the door or on the shelves.

[augmentin]

@Synner667: I'm admittedly an outsider. The concept is only workable with both money and the buy in of previous and (hopefully) current contributors. I believe you are a member of that group. What would you like to see come out of such a concept?

[emouse]

I'm getting paid for a few of my contracts (Dusk, Seattle 2072, and 6th World Almanac).

Throwing out a complete guess, they're paying the debts off in chronological order, but also making a point of putting their awakened ducks in a row for 6th World so that they can put it in print ASAP.

What better way to lure fans and retailers who are aware of the mess back in than being able to claim that freelancers on the new book have already been paid, and income from the book will help make further payments?

I'll just say it again, because I think it needs to be said, awakened ducks.

[otakusensei]

Throwing out a complete guess, they're paying the debts off in chronological order, but also making a point of putting their awakened ducks in a row for 6th World so that they can put it in print ASAP.

What better way to lure fans and retailers who are aware of the mess back in than being able to claim that freelancers on the new book have already been paid, and income from the book will help make further payments?

I'll just say it again, because I think it needs to be said, awakened ducks.

Except in the case of 6thWA they have to rewrite AH's sections. That's going to be a serious delay considering the loss of Adam Jury as well. I wouldn't expect that book anytime soon, even if CGL scrapes up the cash to print it.

[emouse]

Except in the case of 6thWA they have to rewrite AH's sections. That's going to be a serious delay considering the loss of Adam Jury as well. I wouldn't expect that book anytime soon, even if CGL scrapes up the cash to print it.

Sounded like they were going to several authors to get those sections done, but that would still mean a little more time. So perhaps they're trying to lock down as much content to the book as possible, before any other freelancers cancel their contract.

Also, don't need as much cash to issue the PDF.

I could very well see the 6th World PDF sales being directed to pay off contracts to release the remaining in-print material. It would make sense to make that a priority over getting a new book in print, since you've got retailers and CGL sitting on product they aren't supposed to sell.

Once the held books are paid off, then they start looking at actually doing a print run of 6th World.

[Synner]

@Synner667: I'm admittedly an outsider. The concept is only workable with both money and the buy in of previous and (hopefully) current contributors. I believe you are a member of that group. What would you like to see come out of such a concept?

I believe you're asking the wrong Synner... That said, many of your ideas have merit though some of your initial analysis is off. Creatively speaking, the Shadowrun line, like the Battletech line, is run by a line developer (Rob initially, me after that, currently Jason Hardy). The developer's job is pretty cool and ideally involves getting talented authors to write the best books they can (based on the developer's guidelines and bookspecs) to forward the developer's own overriding vision for the line and setting. (Note that while the developer usually provides a lot of artnotes and guidelines for each book, artwork is actually the province of the Art Director/Developer). Each line developer answers to Catalyst's Managing Developer, Randall Bills, who is/was in charge of keeping us in line, making sure that books stayed on schedule, and that any hiccups in the development phase of the process got ironed out.

(Most of) The problems with Catalyst have nothing to do with the development side of things (ie. the books that were just pulled from distributors were delivered for editing more than a year ago, a point that normally means the book will be in stores in two-three months, these took 9-12 months to be released). The problem appears to have been with top-level management and has impacted directly the other half of the product development equation - production and printing. Ultimately and inevitably it backlashed and affected the pillars of the development process - the people (mostly freelancers) who write, illustrate and edit the books.

Some of your ideas for expanding the profit potential of the line are great, but they're nothing new. They're stuff (along with the Holostreets fiction subscription service, the chargen software, the novels, and numerous other projects) that Rob, I and Adam voiced interest in developing at one point or another (often more than once) while we were at Catalyst. However, the intricacies and timing of the Topps license have made all those things slow-burn projects that haven't budged in years (obviously, the now-evident financial mismanagement was also a factor).

As for such thing as a community-owned license.... well, let me put it this way. Ask 3 Dumpshockers about something and you're likely to get 4.6 answers. Multiply that schizophrenia by the fanboy community (hey, I'm a fanboy myself) and I seriously doubt the community would come to an agreement about how to manage the license, let alone who should manage it and what direction it should take.

That said, starting with a core group that is interested in setting up a company to bid for the license and opening up minority participation in said company to the community in exchange for helping fund the start-up, that's an idea I could get behind.

[kzt]

Apparently not. Vice and Midnight are reportedly not included on the list of products to be paid off, and they're ready to ship.

Vice is in stores. I bought a copy on Thursday.

[otakusensei]

Vice is in stores. I bought a copy on Thursday.

They were shipped, but they shouldn't be on the shelf as I understand it. I asked a while back about this as well seeing as my friend, a store owner, was unsure if he should be ordering or stocking any CGL products.

[Ancient History]

Vice is in stores. I bought a copy on Thursday.

Yeah, I should really send somebody a nasty e-mail about that.

[kzt]

First, the issue of credibility: I became a user this morning (username pun intended), though have
How can a dedicated fan base address this challenge? I would suggest that "we" submit a bid for the license.

I was loosely involved in the fan funded Glorantha Trading Association that funded Greg Stafford's HeroQuest. They attempted to do a fan owned corp, but the securities law ate them alive when they looked into the details. So they found a different approach. If you really want to do this you should get in touch with Greg Stafford and he might be able and willing to provide the legal framework he used.

[tete]

Another potential example is hosted virtual tabletops. The intention here is to enhance, not replace the richness of the face to face PnP system. The fact is many GMs already host virtual games and I believe many of them would pay for a subscription to better and more easily facilitate those games. Please don't let this suggestion derail the discussion into the pros and cons of PnP-only systems. It's just a product concept within the larger scope of a consumer-owned company leasing the SR license from Topps.

Its my understanding that Virtual Tabletops would be a NO as Topps does not own FASA Interactive and the digital rights are separate from the book rights currently. Honestly I think a fanboy run company would be a nightmere because it would become dumpshock wars in the development cycle.

[hermit]

Hasn't FASA interactive been disbanded?

[Ol' Scratch]

I thought Microsoft snatched up the rights. Which makes it as good as gone forever.

[The Monk]

That said, starting with a core group that is interested in setting up a company to bid for the license and opening up minority participation in said company to the community in exchange for helping fund the start-up, that's an idea I could get behind.

I'd support something like this. Maybe someone could organize something like this (hint).

[JM Hardy]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about why payments were made in what order, with some people coming to the conclusion that Catalyst management is insane, vindictive, or both. Let me suggest that the following things should be known in order to better understand the decisions.

1. By which dates are all the payments in question due?
2. Exactly what are the effects of freelancers withholding copyrights on a project already published? Or on a project near publication? Which projects have freelancers withheld copyrights on?
3. What are the effects of freelancers terminating a contract on a project that has been published? For which projects has that happened?

Unless you have the answers to all these questions--and I mean good answers from a lawyer for those last two--then it is quite possible you are not prepared to understand just how the decisions have been made.

Now, I know that the inevitable response to this is that people will say "Help us understand. Explain all these steps and offer details, please." Unfortunately, the answer has to be my customary "No" on such things, and here's why:

1. Again, just because people are curious doesn't mean a business' need to keep information confidential goes away. There are simply some things that are not public business.

2. Once lawyers are involved in any way, it is extremely unwise for non-lawyers such as myself to advance opinions or information. Tends not to help things.

I know that will not be satisfactory to everyone here, but that simply leads me to refer to Synner's salient point about opinions and Dumpshockers in post 1013. I'm never going to satisfy everyone!

Jason H.

[DireRadiant]

Keep in mind for any product with N number of copyright holders, it cannot go out the door with only N-1 having given over the copyrights. I'm sure who is withholding a particular copyright for any existing or forthcoming product factors heavily into any decisions made regarding payment. CGL is no doubt to attempting to maximize it's available financial resources.

[tete]

Hasn't FASA interactive been disbanded?

I thought Microsoft snatched up the rights. Which makes it as good as gone forever.

Its my understanding that the rights went to Microsoft who then disbanded FASA Interactive and is now licensing those rights to Jordan Weisman after a failed purchase attempt. Whew... I could be 100% wrong though (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Rotbart van Dain...]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about why payments were made in what order, with some people coming to the conclusion that Catalyst management is insane, vindictive, or both.

Not really – the right time to be vindictive is after people served their purpose.

Which is why it eludes me why you went for the nuclear option on AH before it was a done deal.