The CGL situation p3 Options

[Patrick Goodman]

I'm thinkin' Lawnmower Man meets Pixar Studios for the graphics...

I don't think there's enough bleach to do anything about that image....

[Rob Boyle]

The Gen Con events were submitted months ago, long before the trouble start (Public trouble, anyways). I can't speak for exactly how these will be worked out, as that's not my department.

However, at worst, these events just get canceled. At best, Wildfire and Posthuman take over the slots and handle running those events themselves.

Posthuman plans to take over and run the events at GenCon, and hopefully Origins too.

[Malachi]

Rob's title still says "Shadowrun Line Developer"... that's awesome.

[SecGuard]

I don't think there's enough bleach to do anything about that image....

This is a good thing (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[X-Kalibur]

Rob's title still says "Shadowrun Line Developer"... that's awesome.

And is now fixed apparently to be just as awesome, simply saying "Eclipse Phase". (Shouldn't it technically be Posthuman?)

[Dwight]

And is now fixed apparently to be just as awesome, simply saying "Eclipse Phase". (Shouldn't it technically be Posthuman?)

Pimp the Product, not the company, is nearly always the right answer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The exception is when the company is effectively the product. But that is more for a very well established company with a lot of successes and years under it's belt.

[Bull]

Quince doesn't think Bull was using his happy fun moderator orange font color, so assumes his commlink was broadcasting in Bull the Ork Decker instead of Bull the Moderator mode.

I actually stepped down as a moderator. Since I'm sorta working for CGL in a semi-official capacity as Missions Coordinator, I figured it was for the best. It wasn't real widely announced or anything.

And for what it's worth, I got yelled at by the RedJack for it.

Rob: Awesome, I was hoping that would be the case for the EP stuff (ANd the CT stuff as well). Good luck! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bull

[Bull]

Contacting the moderator has been brought up in this thread and will be addressed.

And just to head something off at the pass ... the "Bull" that you found listed on an AYFL page is not the same person that posts on these [and many gaming message boards] as Bull. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Indeed. I'm currently living in Dayton, Ohio, and I've never actually been to Seattle. I'd like to visit, see some of the sites, such as the "Future Home of the Archology" and the Underground.

Bull

[Stahlseele]

*kicks bull in the shin*
damn it, you were too few as it was. But eh, personal ethics and all that i guess. <.<
i can understand redjack jelling at you.
someone at work just quit the other day, guess who'se shi(f)t i get to do tomorrow?

[Bull]

*kicks bull in the shin*
damn it, you were too few as it was. But eh, personal ethics and all that i guess. <.<
i can understand redjack jelling at you.
someone at work just quit the other day, guess who'se shi(f)t i get to do tomorrow?

I'm still helping the mods out a little behind the scenes, but I'm not actually moderating, if that makes sense. They're currently in the process of expanding the ranks a bit again. I expect Fisty or Caine or RJ to have more to say on that at some point soon.

Bull

[Stahlseele]

I'm still helping the mods out a little behind the scenes, but I'm not actually moderating, if that makes sense. They're currently in the process of expanding the ranks a bit again. I expect Fisty or Caine or RJ to have more to say on that at some point soon.

Bull

bah, you're no fun being all reasonable and all ._.
hope they'll keep your sopt open too, regardless ^^

[fistandantilus4....]

And is now fixed apparently to be just as awesome, simply saying "Eclipse Phase". (Shouldn't it technically be Posthuman?)

Kinda like the U.S. President, you can still call him Mr. President once he's retired. You go play Line Developer for a while, I think you've certainly earned having whatever damn title you want. His grace is sufficent.

I'm still helping the mods out a little behind the scenes, but I'm not actually moderating, if that makes sense. They're currently in the process of expanding the ranks a bit again. I expect Fisty or Caine or RJ to have more to say on that at some point soon.

Bull

We're working on a number of ways to modify the whole mod business at the moment. We are expanding out list of moderators (as well as updating, since most folks know we've got a few who have gone away), working on the contact issue (although augmentin, you still had full access to the boards, so all you have to do is click on a mod's name, mine for example, and hit PM, or go to the button near the bottom of the main page that says 'moderation team' and click that for a complete list, along with PM keys), and also ... formalize whether we're going to "officially" use pretty colors in all mod posts. Adam has always liked "Mod Post Hate Engage!" disclaimers before his posts, and Chrome Tiger has been using that as well. Eidolon, Redjack, Bull, Caine and I all use a color code so the mod posts pop a bit more.

Sorry for the tangent, and the huge run on sentence. Just wanted to address this real quick. Carry on.

[fistandantilus4....]

hope they'll keep your sopt open too, regardless ^^

I think Bull's got more right to be there than I do. Adam as well. Previous mods for the most part still have full access. They don't usually get into the grit of moderating the forum, but they still play around behind the scenes.

[augmentin]

Public apology to Bull:
Didn't realize you weren't a moderator anymore. I'm sorry. No snarkiness intended when I say talk about werewolf penis all you want.
Incidentally, stepping down as a moderator after joining IMR/CGL in an official capacity was pretty classy. I respect that.

@Fistandantilus4.0 LadyDoor just taught me how to do that. The challenge was that I was initially a "probationary member" and didn't know how or why. Some very helpful folks in another thread taught me to post enough times to become a member, but I didn't realize that would allow PMs. I didn't think I could send a PM and as previously stated, the "contact a moderator" link was(/is?) dead. Anyway, I heard you're working on it, so thanks! From an ease of use perspective, some kind of here's how to reach us note in the "My Controls" section would probably do the trick.

The thing that's most attractive about DS is that the arguments are more or less well thought out and when not trying to crush dissenting opinion, most DS-ers are a pretty helpful lot.

On the other hand, there's always the mounted cop discussions...

[fistandantilus4....]

Ah, gotcha. Yeah, the limits on new accounts were put in places because of issues we were having with Spambots. Sorry for the hassle. We're still in the process of playing with some things. As always, Semper Gumbi. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Cain]

When I read the letter, it was my impression that they'd taken the position of "forgive and forget since he's going to be paying it all back" -- it's the "since he's going to be paying it all back" that wrapped up nicely in my mind. I really don't see why people are getting worked up about this or why private correspondence needed to be posted. Apparently everything is on its way to being fixed. I don't know, maybe I'm missing something.

The problem is that apparently he's not paying it back. The fact that freelancers aren't all being paid indicates that CGL probably hasn't received a huge influx of cash recently. Jennifer Harding hinted that she didn't think Loren Coleman was going to pay it back, and flat-out said that she could not continue to work with Loren Coleman, for "ethical reasons".

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The problem is that apparently he's not paying it back. The fact that freelancers aren't all being paid indicates that CGL probably hasn't received a huge influx of cash recently. Jennifer Harding hinted that she didn't think Loren Coleman was going to pay it back, and flat-out said that she could not continue to work with Loren Coleman, for "ethical reasons".

Would you be willing to continue working (for no pay, no less) with an Embezzler? I know that I would not...

Keep the Faith

[JM Hardy]

The problem is that apparently he's not paying it back. The fact that freelancers aren't all being paid indicates that CGL probably hasn't received a huge influx of cash recently. Jennifer Harding hinted that she didn't think Loren Coleman was going to pay it back, and flat-out said that she could not continue to work with Loren Coleman, for "ethical reasons".

The plan, as has been stated, is for recompense to be made. These sort of things do not happen all at once, though.

Jason H.

[urgru]

The problem is that apparently he's not paying it back. The fact that freelancers aren't all being paid indicates that CGL probably hasn't received a huge influx of cash recently.

How is that apparent to you? The freelancers are not Catalyst's only creditors. Maybe there's cash coming in and it was necessary to give a hunk of it to WildFire in order to facilitate the orderly transfer of inventory ownership and give them the seed capital needed to distribute their own books until a new publisher is located? Maybe it went to artists. Maybe it's going to the IRS. Maybe it's going to the freight company that just hauled the LE's halfway around the world so they can actually get out of the warehouse and into people's hands? You can't assume that just because the freelancers haven't been paid in full, there's no repayment taking place. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But with lots of mouths to feed and limited liquid cash, it's foolish to draw any assumptions from the freelancers' situations alone.

[tweak]

Posthuman plans to take over and run the events at GenCon, and hopefully Origins too.

Awesome! I look forward to playing.

[Cain]

The plan, as has been stated, is for recompense to be made. These sort of things do not happen all at once, though.

We've seen doubt coming from the person who was supposed to draw up the plans to pay it back. Now, it's entirely up to the will of Loren L. Coleman to pay it back as he sees fit, according to the public releases.

How is that apparent to you? The freelancers are not Catalyst's only creditors. Maybe there's cash coming in and it was necessary to give a hunk of it to WildFire in order to facilitate the orderly transfer of inventory ownership and give them the seed capital needed to distribute their own books until a new publisher is located? Maybe it went to artists. Maybe it's going to the IRS. Maybe it's going to the freight company that just hauled the LE's halfway around the world so they can actually get out of the warehouse and into people's hands? You can't assume that just because the freelancers haven't been paid in full, there's no repayment taking place. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. But with lots of mouths to feed and limited liquid cash, it's foolish to draw any assumptions from the freelancers' situations alone.

I might be wrong, but realistically, the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out. That doesn't look good. Additionally, Jason Hardy has said that he'd pay all the freelancers instantly, if he could. The fact that he isn't being allowed to really doesn't look good. And, we have multiple partners bailing out on CGL for nonpayment. If the fruit doesn't look good, there's a good chance that it isn't good.

[Patrick Goodman]

Boy, Cain. Does it take a lot of strength to get that kind of grip on the facts? Because it must take a helluva grip to hold them as tightly as you'd need to in order to twist them in some of the interesting shapes you've created.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

After much reflection on this I have concluded what I take away from this thread goes like this.

We are a nation of laws, where the rule of law must be applied regardless of one’s station in life. As such, we have a very refined view of justice and seek it whenever possible.

It appears that an individual/s have violated very basic ethics (although I have no definitive facts to provide one way or the other) and that this individual/s is ‘going to get away without being brought to justice.’

In my life I have seen a great many injustices perpetrated and at the time it looked as if these individuals were getting away with it. I can attest to this though, that the wheel goes round. While not nearly as gratifying as justice swiftly served, that ultimately you get back what you put out there. If you think that this situation does not have profound ramifications and that it will fail to impact the guilty party’s future, well, you just haven’t lived long enough.

If I had to cast the bones or read the tea leaves I would say that ultimately there will be a departure from CGL of the offending party once the ship has been saved. This is a very, very small community and that this sort of violation will haunt every deal that they would seek. I can certainly tell you that going to conventions or trade shows after this mess would be humiliation far beyond what I could withstand. Working with people every single day that know what you did, I would imagine that getting out of bed in the morning to go to work would be utter torture. I think that at some point, they will reach a point where they simply can’t face that sort of unrelenting shame and look towards a fresh start.

Is this justice?
It is neither swift or perfect but trying to make amends and restitution is a start.

Much hay is being made of that only the offending party is going to be in charge of making restitution. However, I believe that Randal is going to be monitoring the situation and while I don’t know him, I do know a friend of his. What I have heard of Randal is that he is an extremely decent man, dedicated and a tireless worker. If my friend gives Randal this sort of glowing recommendation then that is good enough for me.

[JM Hardy]

We've seen doubt coming from the person who was supposed to draw up the plans to pay it back. Now, it's entirely up to the will of Loren L. Coleman to pay it back as he sees fit, according to the public releases.


I might be wrong, but realistically, the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out. That doesn't look good. Additionally, Jason Hardy has said that he'd pay all the freelancers instantly, if he could. The fact that he isn't being allowed to really doesn't look good. And, we have multiple partners bailing out on CGL for nonpayment. If the fruit doesn't look good, there's a good chance that it isn't good.

I'm being as patient as I can, but the amount of distortions, whether willful or accidental, in such a small number of words is impressive. Point by point:

1) The interpretation of the public releases that you continue to rely on is incorrect, as I pointed out earlier. Jennifer was a valuable asset to Catalyst, but plans for moving ahead did not entirely depend on her. A plan has been presented to the owners, as I have pointed out previously. Other people are being brought in to help, as I have pointed out. Nothing in the public releases says it is "entirely up to the will of Loren L. Coleman to pay it back" unless you go with the distortions introduced by Frank Trollman. For more detail, see this previous post by me.

2) It has been asked, repeatedly, the people not speculate on why employees left, as that is a matter between them and Catalyst. Yet you say "the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out" and continue the speculation without any grounding but your own assumptions.

3) The fact that you say I want to pay freelancers off, so it doesn't look good that they are not paid off, is a wonderful example of why I might prefer to be stingy with information. What I said was: "Strictly hypothetically speaking, I would like all books moving forward and every single one of them getting in the hands of fans. And of course I'm in favor of paying off all freelancers!" Did you note the "Strictly hypothetically speaking"? I'm saying that is what I would like to do in ideal circumstances, but circumstances are clearly not ideal right now. To try to portray the difference between that hypothetical and reality as evidence of me "not being allowed to" pay people off is a gross distortion of what is happening (and I don't pay people off anyway. I don't handle finances).

I would appreciate my words not being twisted.

Jason H.

[LurkerOutThere]

I might be wrong, but realistically, the woman who came up with the repayment plan was forced out. That doesn't look good. Additionally, Jason Hardy has said that he'd pay all the freelancers instantly, if he could. The fact that he isn't being allowed to really doesn't look good. And, we have multiple partners bailing out on CGL for nonpayment. If the fruit doesn't look good, there's a good chance that it isn't good.

You work very hard at making some serious hash out of a couple of statements. Jennifer quit over reasons she hasn't gone into detail on other then saying they were over ethical ones. That could be a wide variety of things including something as simple as unpaid wages, more details then that have not been forthcoming unless you have some wonderful inside track in which case good on ya. In the meantime Jason has said that if he had the ability he would repay everyone right now. Rather then allow for some time given the complexity of the situation at hand, and I assure you anytime an organization has outstanding debts the situation is complex, you have continued to twist every statement given to the absolute breaking point with no pretense of objective thought. Heck a few pages back I'm pretty sure you took your own wild ass guess from a few pages previous and begun using it as part of the rumor mill.

In short I am really starting to question your mental stability on this matter.