The CGL situation p3 Options

[BTFreeLancer]

Yeah, rrright.

you seem to be forgetting in this matter, that I'm also one of the folks that has been screwed around by CGL. Probably more so than the folks behind the leak. I'm guessing I'm owed more than the average SR freelancer simply because we've had more works published, and have been waiting for payments for just as long. So when I say I don't care what happens to those behind the leaks, I mean it. I could give a flying frak how CGL handles that side of things.

the problem with your continual advocating of wikileaks is they know exactly who had access to the letter and the forum, and the word that is associated with that group is "freelancer".

[Rotbart van Dain...]

So you are afraid that this number is sufficiently small enough to provoke the inquisition?

On the other hand, we don't know nothing about you – in fact, you could be one of the sources (even if you didn't give the letter to Frank directly), trying to find others to take the fall for you.

[Cochise]

For various reasons I suddenly feel very glad that I never made the transition from Fanpro Germany aide to freelancer nor got into SR4 that deep ...

To those who left the freelancer and CGL staff: Good Luck with whatever you do from now on.

To those who still have to get payment: Good Luck with getting what you rightfully earned.

As for those who make this thread so entertaining: Continue doing so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Cardul]

So you are afraid that this number is sufficiently small enough to provoke the inquisition?

On the other hand, we don't know nothing about you – in fact, you could be one of the sources (even if you didn't give the letter to Frank directly), trying to find others to take the fall for you.

It is kind of easy to narrow down the suspects:
Look at the writers on the books that were pulled(since all were available in PDF, and I am
sure people already bought those PDFs, it should be possible).
Cross-reference those writers between those books.
Anyone who has their names shared across those books is on the suspect list, and one, or more,
of those people are likely to be the leak, since they have implicated themselves by pulling their
copyrights.

Personally, I think this is all just a big CF, though. Let people just sit back, and get everything worked
out, rather then trying to show how big a phallus one can be. The books not being able to be sold means
that CGL is making less money, which, I wonder, if that is what the people who pulled their copyrights
were planning from the moment they made the decision? Or if they just made a decision in anger, and did
not entirely think through the implications?

[Stahlseele]

So you are afraid that this number is sufficiently small enough to provoke the inquisition?

On the other hand, we don't know nothing about you – in fact, you could be one of the sources (even if you didn't give the letter to Frank directly), trying to find others to take the fall for you.

NOW you are talking like a shadowrunner ^^

For various reasons I suddenly feel very glad that I never made the transition from Fanpro Germany aide to freelancer nor got into SR4 that deep ...

To those who left the freelancer and CGL staff: Good Luck with whatever you do from now on.

To those who still have to get payment: Good Luck with getting what you rightfully earned.

As for those who make this thread so entertaining: Continue doing so (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Well, on the GERMAN side of things it looks MUCH better it seems.

[Catadmin]

No BT freelancers have stepped forward to complain about pay owed, nor have they withheld anything yet, to my knowledge. Don't know if it means BT freelancers were getting paid when SR freelancers weren't, or if Randal has managed to keep them appeased.

It means the BT Freelancers are choosing to act like professionals and not burn their bridges. Nothing more, nothing less.

I understand the angst behind the whole situation, and yes, maybe there are freelancers who aren't working under an NDA, but this isn't a situation like the tobacco companies where a whistleblower told people that "this stuff is killing you." There is no danger to the life of the average SR fan in this situation. That's why I find it incomprehensible that someone would think posting the letter was a "good thing" or would fix any problems. There are other options available for those who were truly harmed by this situation. Adding fuel to this particular fire causes as much damage to the arsonist as it does to everyone else.

I admire the BT Freelancers for keeping their cool about the situation. It takes a great deal of maturity. In the meantime, the rest of us seem to be acting like spoiled two-year-olds. And yes, I did say "us". I'm not removing myself from that side of the equation.

Anyway, rant over. Going back to lurking now.

[raben-aas]

Errh, could you please admire the SR freelancers that keep their cool, too? Thank you.

[Catadmin]

Errh, could you please admire the SR freelancers that keep their cool, too? Thank you.

Sorry, Raben. I'm mostly referring to everyone as a block, not as individuals.

But point taken. There are both current SR Freelancers and non-current SR Freelancers who are doing an admirable job of mature and responsible behavior over this situation and I find it quite admirable and refreshing. Apologies if my previous post seemed to indicate otherwise.

[kanislatrans]

@raben-aas: After seeing your Turbobunny picture,cosider yourself admired and practicably worshiped . (grin)

[raben-aas]

Hey! That is off topic! Worship me in a separate thread! (just kidding. thanx for the feedback (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) )

[Demonseed Elite]

It means the BT Freelancers are choosing to act like professionals and not burn their bridges. Nothing more, nothing less.

Not that I condone the posting of freelancer communications to a public fan forum (because I don't), but "professional" is not an adjective I'd ever apply to my business relationship with Catalyst. Not even close. Professional publishers do not expect drafts to be submitted before they've sent out a contract. And professional publishers reply to e-mails inquiring about non-payment.

Actually, it's unfair for me to paint all of Catalyst in that light. Adam and Jennifer were professionals at Catalyst. As were Rob Boyle and Peter Taylor. Jason Hardy may be too; he was not yet line developer when I was a freelancer, so I don't know. But the management...no.

[Demonseed Elite]

And what I mean to say with the above post is that professionalism is a two-way street. I mean, think about it a moment. Fans who have been given an opportunity to write for a game they love don't lash out at the publisher lightly. People like Adam and Jennifer don't resign for no reason. Catalyst did something to be in the place it is now. Whether the Battletech side of the house is having a different experience, I don't know, but this isn't a case of irrational freelancers.

[emouse]

Emphasis mine. The process of getting stuff fixed was overseen by 4 people. 2 of those 4, Jennifer Harding (Office Manager and Bookkeeper), Dave Stansel (Operation Manager), have quit, and have not yet been replaced (to our knowledge). Thus, no one is overseeing the process except those directly responsible for it.

It's a perfectly valid leap of logic without contradicting information.

The audit process is what he was talking about in the first quite. He also indicates that it was completed. Frankly, the audit itself may have been what made them decide to leave. Something like that should have really been handled by a third party accountant to avoid the obvious uncomfortable situation that could develop. Presumably it was handled in-house because the funds were not available to do otherwise. There are other reasons for them to depart the company other than being forced out by the Colemans as he seems to want to imply.

Despite his 'reluctance' to come out and say it, he's been happy to imply it.

[emouse]

Nice job taking Frank to task over his Truth & Lies section... except you apparently missed where he disclaimed that section as rumor and hearsay because he was UNABLE TO PROVE THE VERACITY of those claims.

My problem is that he started by taking the high road, saying "there's stuff I've been told that I can't verify, so I won't repeat it here." He then goes on to list those things he won't repeat in the very same message.

He clearly has an agenda, wanting to see Shadowrun out of the hands of Catalyst. His source or sources also clearly have an agenda to get back at their current or former employer. He seems to believe Catalyst management is evil for 'lying' or 'withholding information' from the public and then happily passes on select information from a source who is most likely violating some sort of contract by disclosing that information to him, and withholds their identity. I'm not talking about the email, I'm referring to the numbers that he claims to have verified with multiple employees. Employees who are most certainly under some sort of employment contract that would mean not disclosing private company information. He resorts to deriding someone's decision based on their personal beliefs, while claiming he's doing it all because of his own personal beliefs.

It all comes off as catty backstabbing and rumor-mongering and it's ugly. Very ugly.

[emouse]

The minimal time it takes to release an official rebuttal to the facts (not allegations) Frank has asserted is not worth your time only if you don't care about quenching the ongoing flames of speculation going across the internet.

Considering how simple it is to say "No, it's all B.S. and Frank has it wrong" makes Frank's statements that much more credible.

Catalyst's first press release was posted pretty much as a response to the thread that started from Frank's original post. Good thing it nipped all this chatter in the bud.

[-Nyx-]

Runners (the freelancers as well as the customers) are punks and anarchists, the Mech-Jockeys are part-time militarists...

So to me it is quite obvious, why one side is running around in circles, burning things and screaming bloody murder, while the other side is digging in, shutting their sights and stockpiling ammo.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Urban guerillia vs. Broken Wheel Militia

(Nice, since I joined SR-freelancing through the BT-side, I'm either urban militia or Broken Wheel guerillia... hmm will go with the later one... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif) )

[Rotbart van Dain...]

He clearly has an agenda, wanting to see Shadowrun out of the hands of Catalyst. His source or sources also clearly have an agenda to get back at their current or former employer. He seems to believe Catalyst management is evil for 'lying' or 'withholding information' from the public and then happily passes on select information from a source who is most likely violating some sort of contract by disclosing that information to him, and withholds their identity.

Yet another case of flinging poo.

While all parties involved have their "agenda", "clearly" is… grossly overstating anything about what that really is.

[Dread Moores]

Now, I'm not calling for a letter-writing campaign just yet. I'm waiting to see how this plays out. However, seeing some good freelancers and employees being forced out really gets my goat. Running on just the verifiable facts, I think CGL has pulled some stinky moves, and it needs to stop.

I've seen this said a few times. Who exactly was forced out? As far as I understand it, no employee has been mentioned as fired, and the freelancers who left chose to do so, for various reasons.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Who exactly was forced out?

Ancient History.

[Stahlseele]

More or less.
He terminated his contracts himself, but one could say he was forced out because he can't work with such people anymore.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

He was banned from the freelancer forums on request of the line developer.
It doesn't get much more "forced out" than that – of course CGL would have loved to still use his material for books close to release, just to keep the schedule.

[Dread Moores]

Okay, so that's one. Was there more than that?

I guess I'm just a little confused here. There seems to be a really heavy defensive show of support for the freelancers, as if there was some kind of organized campaign to get rid of a number of them. It's clear there are payment issues, and I really don't think anybody's disputed that fact. It's also clear there are some financial issues to be addressed. Again, I don't think anybody's disputed that. But I don't quite understand the feeling that framework some have presented as a "freelancer vs CGL" argument. There's obviously issues to be resolved, but Cain's post seemed to indicate multiple folks being forced out, and that it was an intentional move on the part of CGL management. I'm not really seeing that backed up. Is there something I'm missing here?

[Stahlseele]

He was banned from the freelancer forums on request of the line developer.
It doesn't get much more "forced out" than that – of course CGL would have loved to still use his material for books close to release, just to keep the schedule.

Ah, yes, i forgot to mention that, didn't i?

[Fuchs]

Yes NDA infringement is a crime. It's breaking a contract.

Breaking a contract is not a crime.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I wouldn't call it forced out myself, but I can see why some would.

If you wouldn't call "banned from the freelancer forums on request of the line developer" "forced out", then there is indeed no point of talking to you at all. Your "disclaimer" just add to that.