The CGL situation p3 Options

[Cain]

Again, a lot of people see being forced out as when someone actively pursues a course of action for the specific reason of getting someone else to resign.

Any decisions made by CGL management, as far as we know, were not done specifically for the purpose of getting Jen to resign.

As has been stated in this thread, Jen was not just a CGL employee, but also a freelancer who was owed money. She may have felt that being in the position of overseeing collection of money, and being one of the people owed that money was a conflict of interest.

She has also been cited as one of the authors, or the author to pull copyright permission until paid. She may have resigned in order to again avoid an uncomfortable situation where she would be both working for and pursuing legal action against the same entity.

Neither situation, in my mind, or the minds of others, are examples of someone being 'forced out', but are a situation where personal ethics could play a role in their decision to leave.

To-may-toe, To-Mah-toe.

You might not like to think of it as being "forced out", but the implication we're getting is that Adam, David, and Jennifer were put in a situation where they had to choose between their ethics and their job. In fact, all three have stated as much, so we know they were *forced* to choose between an intolerable ethical situation and the jobs they loved. In fact, according to Frank's sources (which can be verified), when David and Jennifer presented their findings and repayment plan to Loren Coleman, that exact same day they turned in their resignations. We don't know what happened in that meeting, but we do know that whatever went down, it was sufficient to apply enough ethical pressure to get them to quit on the spot. The implication here is that Loren Coleman demanded their resignations, but there's no way of knowing that.

To try and get this thread back on track, a question was raised on RPG.net over rather or not sales of the SR4.5LE will raise enough cash to save CGL. Now, the question is: how many people intend to buy a LE, who haven't already pre-paid for one?

[Bull]

To try and get this thread back on track, a question was raised on RPG.net over rather or not sales of the SR4.5LE will raise enough cash to save CGL. Now, the question is: how many people intend to buy a LE, who haven't already pre-paid for one?

That's a really good point, since a lot of us actually gave money to Catalyst last year... Hmmm.

Bull

[pbangarth]

It would only take on the order of 20,000 of them to cover the alleged discrepancy in the books.

[Ancient History]

No, because CGL doesn't get 100% of the cover price.

[Method]

You are aware of the difference between "weather" and "climate", right? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Oh jeez. The last thing this thread needs is a flame war about climate change. Didn't we beat that to death a few months ago?

Regarding SR4ALE (Shadowrun for ale? Yes please!): I think people are still shelling out for them. I just purchased mine a few weeks ago, so I would hope that money is already in some freelancer's pocket.

[BlueMax]

Oh jeez. The last thing this thread needs is a flame war about climate change. Didn't we beat that to death a few months ago?

Regarding SR4ALE (Shadowrun for ale? Yes please!): I think people are still shelling out for them. I just purchased mine a few weeks ago, so I would hope that money is already in some freelancer's pocket.

On the CBT forums, there is many a claim that <<500 have sold. Shocks the heck out of me, as I know 12 orders from my three SR groups.
For purely drek and laughter, I would love to see the sales numbers for CBT and Battletech.
That and there is a chance said numbers would really fuel the fire.


BlueMax
/me makes more popcorn and watches all of these threads on the net.

[D2F]

Oh jeez. The last thing this thread needs is a flame war about climate change. Didn't we beat that to death a few months ago?

You might have noticed the smiley (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Method]

I sure did. I should have included one in my post, as clearly the humor didn't translate. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[kzt]

As I understand it, copyright in no way respects the amount of work one had to do to develop a product, rather copyright protects originality of expression. You could work for years to develop the perfect game, using neat ideas that no one else had ever thought of, and none of those ideas are copyrightable; nor are the rules themselves.

Patents protect "ideas". Though that's not actually correct, it is the general idea.

[kzt]

No, because CGL doesn't get 100% of the cover price.

Via direct sales? Who else gets a cut?

Of course, 20,000 "limited edition" books.....

[HappyDaze]

You see? That's one of the things I love about Shadowrun--apply yourself, and you can make just about anything happen!

Jason H.

So there you have it: If the SR Freelancers apply themselves, they can just about make CGL pay them. I guess they must have just been slacking on applying themselves last year. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Pepsi Jedi]

Recently getting back into Shadowrun after a long hiatus in white wolf and Palladium. I'm a bit distressed to come and find these forums only to find it in a seeming crisis.

So, to help a guy out that missed the first two or three versions of this thread and to sum up... as best I can tell the most recent books cant' be bought or downloaded right now, due to a problem with company money finding it's way into an owners accounts and freelancers not getting paid?

If this is so, is there an ETA on the books not being sold now?

Which books are they?

And will future books be delayed?

I'm getting an Ipad on Saturday and I'd love to have my Shadowrun 4th on it. (( i mean how poetic would it be?))

[HappyDaze]

I still want to know how Midnight got out. I thought it was being held for copyright issues. If CGL violates that hold, can those other parties seek compensation for this?

[JM Hardy]

Recently getting back into Shadowrun after a long hiatus in white wolf and Palladium. I'm a bit distressed to come and find these forums only to find it in a seeming crisis.

So, to help a guy out that missed the first two or three versions of this thread and to sum up... as best I can tell the most recent books cant' be bought or downloaded right now, due to a problem with company money finding it's way into an owners accounts and freelancers not getting paid?

If this is so, is there an ETA on the books not being sold now?

Which books are they?

And will future books be delayed?

I'm getting an Ipad on Saturday and I'd love to have my Shadowrun 4th on it. (( i mean how poetic would it be?))

Welcome back to Shadowrun--we'll be trying to get products moving as quickly as possible for you to enjoy! I don't have a complete list of the products affected, but I believe it's Vice, Dawn of the Artifacts 1 & 2, Seattle 2072, and Running Wild. I hope to be hearing news about some of those books very shortly, and will update people on Dumpshock when I do.

Future books are invariably delayed at least a bit--the loss of production staff, as well as freelancers withholding copyright or canceling contracts, causes some delay. I'm doing the best I can to make that delay as short as possible. The basic order of the upcoming releases remains unchanged, with Corp Guide being the next in line based on what I know now.

Congrats on getting an iPad--the sales of the core rulebooks aren't affected, so load 'em on! I wouldn't be at all opposed to seeing a photo of SR4A or something on an iPad . . .

Jason H.

[JM Hardy]

I still want to know how Midnight got out. I thought it was being held for copyright issues. If CGL violates that hold, can those other parties seek compensation for this?

It was a mistake. Shipments have stopped, but hopefully this will be resolved very shortly and the book will begin moving again.

Jason H.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Welcome back to Shadowrun--we'll be trying to get products moving as quickly as possible for you to enjoy! I don't have a complete list of the products affected, but I believe it's Vice, Dawn of the Artifacts 1 & 2, Seattle 2072, and Running Wild. I hope to be hearing news about some of those books very shortly, and will update people on Dumpshock when I do.

Future books are invariably delayed at least a bit--the loss of production staff, as well as freelancers withholding copyright or canceling contracts, causes some delay. I'm doing the best I can to make that delay as short as possible. The basic order of the upcoming releases remains unchanged, with Corp Guide being the next in line based on what I know now.

Congrats on getting an iPad--the sales of the core rulebooks aren't affected, so load 'em on! I wouldn't be at all opposed to seeing a photo of SR4A or something on an iPad . . .

Jason H.

Thanks for the quick and informative reply.

And will do. I've got SR4A already so as soon as I get it and figure out how to load up the PDFs I'll post a pic.

[Arclight]

Do you know how many YEARS it's been since i saw snoe fore more than some hours to days?
And more snow than 2 fingers width worth? ;_; I LIKE snow. Winter all in all to be honest.

Solution: move to Munich. Last snow melted mid march. First snow in november, IIRC.

Edith says: Oh, and an hour ago, it started snowing again. Damn.

[knasser]

Thanks for the quick and informative reply.

And will do. I've got SR4A already so as soon as I get it and figure out how to load up the PDFs I'll post a pic.

You got the version from the official Catalyst spokesperson, just keep that in mind. To further answer your question as to what's gone on...

Frank Trollman, ex-freelancers, part-author of things like Street Magic and loudmouth extroadinaire broke the story that Catalyst is in financial trouble because although Shadowrun is profitable, Loren Coleman, one of the owners of Catalyst, misappropriated funds. This has been brewing for a long time apparently. Reaching the conclusion after long non-payment that they actually wouldn't get paid at all, numerous core freelancers walked from Catalyst. This included key people such as Jennifer Harding and Adam Jury. Some of these people were supposed to be working on getting Coleman to repay the money he nicked. They have since resigned for 'ethical reasons'. On the same day. Suspicions are rife. Meanwhile a number of books have been withdrawn from sale because the authors have withdrawn copyright due to non-payment. The fact that Catalyst didn't immediately pay up speaks volumes.

Maybe JM Hardy is correct in what he says about getting things back on track. But keep in mind the source and don't bank on things going smoothly. At every stage of this, Frank has said something and later turned out to be correct.

K.

[knasser]

Regarding SR4ALE (Shadowrun for ale? Yes please!): I think people are still shelling out for them. I just purchased mine a few weeks ago, so I would hope that money is already in some freelancer's pocket.

I would think that a large portion of those that would buy the LE have already got it on pre-order. It was supposed to be a Limited Edition, after all. And you're not going to get many impulse buys of this from people seeing it in the shops. It'll be sold primarily to people like Dumpshockers who are in the know.

I personally considered ordering one as I needed new rulebooks at the time. But due to CGL's inability to tell me anything at all about how the LE would differ from the very nice SR4 20th Anniversary edition, I bought two copies of the latter. I'm certainly not spending money on a third rule book,

K.

[Lansdren]

I would be very concerned if a Limited Edition became just a More Expensive Edition just to make some money regardless. It wouldnt speak very highly of any long term plans.

[Ol' Scratch]

Yeah. I hear "Limited Edition" is synonymous with "same price as the normal edition" in the gaming industry. True story.

[Pepsi Jedi]

You got the version from the official Catalyst spokesperson, just keep that in mind. To further answer your question as to what's gone on...

Frank Trollman, ex-freelancers, part-author of things like Street Magic and loudmouth extroadinaire broke the story that Catalyst is in financial trouble because although Shadowrun is profitable, Loren Coleman, one of the owners of Catalyst, misappropriated funds. This has been brewing for a long time apparently. Reaching the conclusion after long non-payment that they actually wouldn't get paid at all, numerous core freelancers walked from Catalyst. This included key people such as Jennifer Harding and Adam Jury. Some of these people were supposed to be working on getting Coleman to repay the money he nicked. They have since resigned for 'ethical reasons'. On the same day. Suspicions are rife. Meanwhile a number of books have been withdrawn from sale because the authors have withdrawn copyright due to non-payment. The fact that Catalyst didn't immediately pay up speaks volumes.

Maybe JM Hardy is correct in what he says about getting things back on track. But keep in mind the source and don't bank on things going smoothly. At every stage of this, Frank has said something and later turned out to be correct.

K.

I hope they get it squared away. This sort of thing happened at Palladium years ago and not a week goes by that they don't blame it for not hitting release dates and all the woes in their universe. I love Palladium books but yeah, after years and years the excuses ring hollow.

It'd suck if I got back into Shadowrun, just to find it happening over here too.

[Stalker-x]

Could somebody please just a short line onto the blog of SR4.com, saying all this was the worst April's fool in years, and that it's over now? I'll stay on the site all day, hitting my F5 key every 10 to 20 seconds, so no need to hurry. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[raben-aas]

Could somebody please just a short line onto the blog of SR4.com, saying all this was the worst April's fool in years

As a matter of fact, I'm waiting for the inevitable blog posts slash press releases announcing that the SR license goes to Wizards, White Wolf or Microsoft.

AAS

[Cardul]

Personally, I am waiting for CGL to pull out of this, get the license renewed, get the freelancers paid, and all the people running around with their pitchforks and torches to end up getting a big serving of Corvus....