The CGL situation p3 Options

[Demonseed Elite]

Yeah, though the IRS actually gives out a reward for someone who drops a dime on a tax evader. If the tax evasion is substantial, the reward can be quite a bit of money. Though not everyone qualifies for the reward, even if they do report someone.

[Stahlseele]

hmmm . . delivering paydata to the government? O.o

[hermit]

So long as the money's good? Why let morals get in the way of a good business oppoirtunity, Seele.

Think of this swiss banker who raked in millions from the German government and made all those tax evading rich people shit their pants. They even got the morals on their side, you ask me.

[Stahlseele]

's just . . usually the Government is The Enemy <.<;, . . feels kinda strange . .

[Pepsi Jedi]

So out of all these writers that have not been paid their contracted money, and many whom have withheld copy write due to non payment, not one of them has threatened to go to the police, or.. actually picked up the phone? I'm pretty new to these boards but it seems extremely clear that some major embezzlement went on here if the company can't pay it's people due to one guy making off with the money. It's not like he slipped a few $100 here and there and hid it in operating cost. This is thousands and thousands of dollars, to the point that the coffers are empty and people aren't getting paid. That's ___EASY___ To find when you look for it.

[Demonseed Elite]

So out of all these writers that have not been paid their contracted money, and many whom have withheld copy write due to non payment, not one of them has threatened to go to the police, or.. actually picked up the phone?

I wouldn't assume that. Though I'm sure they wouldn't post about it on a forum if they did. After all, anything they said here might very well be admissible in a court somewhere down the line.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Well yeah I get that. lol.

But the original question remains. Dude stole 1,000s or 10,000s from the company. He needs to see the inside of a cell.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well yeah I get that. lol.

But the original question remains. Dude stole 1,000s or 10,000s from the company. He needs to see the inside of a cell.

Since the original figures were actually in the 100's of Thousands, I would tend to agree with that...

Keep the Faith

[Stahlseele]

These numbers were the one most disputed point in this whole thing.
but seeing how the freelancers alone might be in there with 5 to 15, maybe up to 20k of outstanding payments, it does seem a bit more realistic to me right now.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Yeah I don't have any 'hard' numbers, past the fact that 3+ people are owed $3,000+ each. And you gotta think it's enough missing so that it bottomed out the coffers, as they're actually pulling books from sale, vs just cowboying up and paying the people.

That means the money just isn't there.

Which means it was stolen. Lets call it what it is. The guy stole company money and used or hid it. Other wise when busted he'd give it back. He hasn't. People are still unpaid, so the money is GONE or hidden. Either way it's still stolen. To the tune of $1,000s MINIMUM but more likely $10,000+ (( just going off what a few freelancers here say they're owed, and the fact that the company is bottomed out)).

That deserves criminal charges and jail. He didn't steal someones sandwich from the fridge at work, dude stole thousands of dollars. THat's not an 'oops my bad' action.

*Nods to Jennifer*

Stole money from the company, and from the mouths of babies... That's pretty low down.

[Stahlseele]

Yes it is, but no smoke, no fire.
Technically, the money missing belongs other owners of CGL, if i understood this whole PR/Legalese Mumbo Jumbo correct.
And if they don't sue, then nothing happens. Of course, this missing money means the freelancers don't get paid, that's true.
But the freelancers could only try and sue for outstanding wages, but not because of the missing money.

[Fuchs]

Yes it is, but no smoke, no fire.
Technically, the money missing belongs other owners of CGL, if i understood this whole PR/Legalese Mumbo Jumbo correct.
And if they don't sue, then nothing happens. Of course, this missing money means the freelancers don't get paid, that's true.
But the freelancers could only try and sue for outstanding wages, but not because of the missing money.

That depends. In Switzerland, this would be a crime that the state persecutes whether or not the owners want it persecuted. Once the police hear of such an act, they will launch an investigation.

[Stahlseele]

Probably only because of missing Tax-Money.

[Shinobi Killfist]

That depends. In Switzerland, this would be a crime that the state persecutes whether or not the owners want it persecuted. Once the police hear of such an act, they will launch an investigation.

I'm not sure in the case of what is alleged to happened here, but most crimes are crimes against the state/country in the US. There are states that don't follow that rule, but the Feds do as far as I know. For states though it started in a large part because of things like domestic violence and some sex offenses, people would not press charges against there husbands/fathers. I don't know how much it has entered the realm of financial crimes.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Embezzlement is still a crime. It could be charged in the US. Happens all the time. Usually with much larger companies but it's still a crime. If you stole $1,000,000 or $10,000 it's still theft and embezzlement.

[Fuchs]

I'm not sure in the case of what is alleged to happened here, but most crimes are crimes against the state/country in the US. There are states that don't follow that rule, but the Feds do as far as I know. For states though it started in a large part because of things like domestic violence and some sex offenses, people would not press charges against there husbands/fathers. I don't know how much it has entered the realm of financial crimes.

Most of the crimes are actually state crimes over here, especially theft, con, etc..

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Bob, I don't know your real name so I don't know if any proposal from you ever crossed my desk. What I can tell you is that despite the rumors that I heard at the time about the "closed pool policy" at FASA, I had no experience with the company so I can't confirm or deny. However, what I can say is that in my personal experience (which happens to be considerable since I wrote for almost every book FanPro put out) there was no such policy at FanPro or among the ranks of established freelancers I worked with.

As far as FASA goes, they always paid me on time, Mike Mulvihill was very generous with his time in answering questions. From my perspective, Mike built up a considerable group of freelancers that did excellent work.

For your tenure as Line Developer I am more than content to take you at your word.

Yet, by your account from when Mike went to work at Wizkids (and FASA closed) till the time that you became Line Developer the pool had shrunk.

You had no history with writing for FASA...you were part of the new closed pool. You see, after FASA, that is when the new pool was formed...with decidedly fewer FASA freelancers.

[Demonseed Elite]

As far as FASA goes, they always paid me on time, Mike Mulvihill was very generous with his time in answering questions. From my perspective, Mike built up a considerable group of freelancers that did excellent work.

For your tenure as Line Developer I am more than content to take you at your word.

Yet, by your account from when Mike went to work at Wizkids (and FASA closed) till the time that you became Line Developer the pool had shrunk.

You had no history with writing for FASA...you were part of the new closed pool. You see, after FASA, that is when the new pool was formed...with decidedly fewer FASA freelancers.

Hrm, can't say I agree with that. As I was one of the freelancers who wrote for FASA and then moved to FanPro and then later moved to Catalyst. Honestly, I'm not aware that at any time there was anything resembling a closed freelancer pool.

FASA may have always paid you on time, but they did not always pay me on time. And I know I was not the only one. That said, I will agree there a lot of great freelancers at FASA. When FASA ended and FanPro took over, we lost a lot of those freelancers. Not because there was anything keeping them from joining FanPro, as far as I can tell, but because most them didn't want to bother. I know I spoke to a freelancer I had great respect for during the FASA time who told me he wasn't going to bother to keep writing for FanPro because of non-payment issues he had with FASA.

[Omenowl]

And if it went to court CGL would see no money as Loren would put it into his defense. By reading the email from Randall it seems that Loren will try to pay back the money. The threat of jail may mean more than actually going to jail. So if Loren goes to court and gets jail time were are talking maybe months assuming someone is even willing to prosecute.

Then we are left with the question how much is Topps license for shadowrun? If CGL goes down who is going to pick up the license? Who can afford to publish a book? A shadowrun 5 book would cost 300-400k to produce plus 1-2 years of development time? It is not exactly like pen and paper rpgs are the bonanza for profits. It is in everyone's best interest for CGL to get their accounts settled by paying their debts, repair the relationship with the freelancers/writers and to move on. As long the money to print books and pay writers is done then the owners can fight for the remainder of the cash inflow.

The thing we don't know is how much the owners are having to pay to fix this. I would be pretty aggravated if I was an owner only to find out to keep my company afloat I had to dig into my savings because someone skimmed money off the top and didn't pay people. Lets assume a book is 50000 just for the writing, layout and artwork. If the owners have to suddenly come up with 150-200k by second mortgages, higher interest rates, etc then it has hurt everyone. Still at the end it is the owner prerogative to decide if they want to remain partners or simply sell their stake.

[the_dunner]

A shadowrun 5 book would cost 300-400k to produce plus 1-2 years of development time?

Lets assume a book is 50000 just for the writing, layout and artwork.

For reasons that have nothing at all to do with Shadowrun, I am very familiar with the current costs to produce RPG books. I assure you, these numbers are grossly inflated.

[HappyDaze]

It is in everyone's best interest for CGL to get their accounts settled by paying their debts, repair the relationship with the freelancers/writers and to move on.

This makes the false assumption that everyone likes the 4e rules and wants to see them continue. I, for one, would like to see a new edition with new mechanics and I hope that work on it starts sooner rather than later.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

This makes the false assumption that everyone likes the 4e rules and wants to see them continue. I, for one, would like to see a new edition with new mechanics and I hope that work on it starts sooner rather than later.

Well, It is quite apparent that you cannot please everyone....

Keep the Faith

[Omenowl]

Sorry got my math wrong on the freelancer pay by a factor of 10, but we are still looking at what 10k a book let alone a print run?

[MindandPen]

And where at least some of the other owners (like Randall Bills) are hoping to sweep the mess under the rug and pray the IRS doesn't notice it.

Time to jump into the deep end of speculation. Some of my friends and family and I were together for Easter. Some of us have experience in publishing, intellectual property (both entertainment and scientific), and all of us have experience in business.

Our collective (summary) Wild Ass Guess of what has/is happening follows:

1) Financial problems were found.
2) Problems had tax implications.
3) Taxes were paid.
4) Cash reserves were significantly reduced.

This brings us to the recent disclosures and problems with paying people. CGL needs money for the license renewal and fixed bills, so the easy place (in their mind) to cut was the freelancers and salaries.

Our speculation is that there was a conversation with TOPPS. TOPPS most likely watches this board (I used to work for a company that helped people do just that - watch sites related to their interests). They most likely know what is happening, and probably had a short conversation along the lines of "fix it or kiss the license goodbye".

So, the owners do the following:

1) Keep everyone in the fold, so as to continue to get restitution from them and show that they are a going concern. The terms of the LLC could also make it difficult to remove one of the owners.
2) Implement controls and procedures that satisfy TOPPS that they have their operations under control. The troublesome owners are neutralized, everyone is watched and accountable, and a plan is put into place to right the ship.

This would be the preferable approach, as it saves the startup headache with a new licensee. This would also explain much of what we have seen, including the marathon check writing session and the lack of terminations/resignations from the owners.

Going forward, TOPPS would keep a close watch to ensure the new procedures protect the line, and that everyone is paid. They may even allow some of the license payment to be delayed if it helps right the ship. If this course is what is happening, a few things will happen over the next few weeks:

1) Books will be published
2) Bills will be paid, including freelancers
3) CGL will retain the license
4) The owners will have less direct control as individuals, it will be exercised as a group

If this happens, CGL should be able to right the ship, people will get paid, products come out.

Again, this is an educated guess, but it fits with what we have heard from JHardy and the facts presented by other insiders without assuming the complete fall of CGL.

-MP

[MindandPen]

Because stealing money is only a crime if there's someone who will go to court with it.
If nobody sues you, if everybody just forgives you, then nothing ever happened.

Crimes are against the people as a whole prosecuted through the state. Against people it is a civil action. As a private company embezzlement is a lot harder to prove. Tax issues are a different story.