The Dwarf Affect Options

[Bull]

Fomori are one of the infected, yes? In my mind, it doesn't matter how many bonus build points they get "for free". They're a Vampiric race, and get hunted for bounty. That's a pretty big unadvertised flaw in my book.

<shrug> But then again, I rarely make characters based on their stats. I make characters based on the concept and how I envision it in my head. I made Bull an Ork Decker specifically because, with his racial penalties, it seemed like it would be an unusual race/class combination (So to speak). Of course, by SR3 Bull managed to become an Archetype, but that's beside the point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In the end, the numbers don't really matter that much. At least, they shouldn't.

Bull

[DuctShuiTengu]

If You were the runt of your species, would you be happy to stay there?

That would depend on how likely this was to come up.

Fomori and ghouls are both relatively uncommon in most areas. Therefor, if I am a fomori ghoul in Seattle, it's not impossible - or even that unlikely - that I am the only fomori ghoul in Seattle. And while I may, in fact, be one of the weakest fomori ghouls in Seatle, I'm still just as strong as a hard-maxed Dwarf or Ork and nearly as strong as the best augmented human or elf, or a soft-maxed Troll. I'm as tough as a hard-maxed troll, tougher than the most heavily augmented human or elf (dwarves can just match if they can find the +3 body somewhere). I am, in short, among the strongest and toughest people in Seattle despite having put no effort into developing either. What's more, I'm an extremely strong and tough person in a society that has been designed to not inconvenience humans and elves who have more important things to worry about than maintaining even average strength and stamina - in other words, far stronger and tougher than I'm likely to need to be often/ever.

Now, if this were a binary choice in isolation (be stronger/don't be stronger), then yes, I'd likely be going with "be stronger" right up until I hit a point where my strength starts becoming detrimental. However, it doesn't exist entirely in isolation. Time spent making the effort to get even stronger is time that I'm not spending doing other things. With this, as any other trait, there is almost certainly going to reach a point where I deem that it is no longer worth the effort that it would take to improve further, and the level of strength/skill/knowledge that I have already is enough. If I'm a fomori ghoul mage or computer expert, strength and toughness probably aren't all that important to me and that base level is likely going to be good enough, especially considering how much of a pain it's got to be to find a gym that has weights heavy enough to actually require an effort. If I'm a fomori ghoul leg-breaker for the Yak, then I probably will want to work on those a bit more because that presents at least a greater chance that I will still want/need to be stronger or tougher than I am.

Or to go back to the superrich people trying to get richer that you cited in an earlier point about this: How many of them (outside of the ones who've gotten superrich for these specific things) would do well in a bodybuilding competition, or playing a sport (doesn't matter which one) professionally, or anything else that's significantly removed from their area of expertise/interest? I think it's safe to say that the answer is "not very many." While many of them would probably agree that they'd like to have a better physique, or be more athletic, it's not important enough to them for them to make that kind of effort.

[Glyph]

Fomori are one of the infected, yes?

Fomoraig are the troll infected; Fomori are a troll metavariant who buck the metavariant trend by being less conspicuous and freakish than their baseline metatype (how could you get two words that are so dissimilar confused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ).

The example being bandied about is of a fomori ghoul, though, so your point about being hunted for a bounty is still relevant.

[toturi]

Fomoraig are the troll infected; Fomori are a troll metavariant who buck the metavariant trend by being less conspicuous and freakish than their baseline metatype (how could you get two words that are so dissimilar confused? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ).

The example being bandied about is of a fomori ghoul, though, so your point about being hunted for a bounty is still relevant.

Fomori are supposed to be less conspicuous and freakish. But due to Distinctive Style, they are more conspicuous.

[Saint Sithney]

I suppose there's a difference between less conspicuous and less beastly..

[Pepsi Jedi]

They stand out because they're not as butt ugly as most people associate with trolls. Instead of 'Oh god look at that fugly fugly troll." it's "Oh wow.. that's a GOOD lookin' troll!"

[Stahlseele]

I'd have thought that the Giant Meta Variant would be the best looking Troll-Version.
Basically, it's just a 4m tall Human after all. No big teeth, no warts, no dermal plating, not overly muscled, no strange skin/eye/hair(colour).

[Samoth]

Using the "lifting and carrrying" rules in SR4a:

The Fomoroi Ghoul with 8 base strength can lift Str x 15 KG off the ground without making a test. Essentially, this guy can deadlift 264 pounds like it's nothing. He can make a Str+Bod test and add the hits at an extra 15 KG per hit. So, the unmofied Fomori Busaw Ghoul could concievably lift 594 pounds with a simple test. Obviously Shadowrun mechanics don't match the real world, where we have powerlifters deadlifting 1000+ pounds, but if this Formori ghoul can lift nearly 600 pounds without any modification (before adding any appropriate Athletics (weight lifting +2) die per GM discretion), what motivation does he have to increase his strength or body to lift more? The same Fomori ghoul can carry around 176 pounds of gear without penalty at any time, which I can't imagine being an all-too-common situation unless he's hauling his assault cannon collection everywhere he goes. This guy will literally never have problems with any strength-based test.

If this dude hard maxes his Body and Strength at 21 and 19 respectively (and about a million Karma) he can effortlessly lift 1320 pounds from the ground with a Str+Bod test. How many times in your life do you think you'll ever need to lift more than a thousand pounds, by yourself?

In comparison, the baseline human with 1 starting strength can heft 15 kilograms (33 pounds) from the ground. My 75 year old grandma can lift more than that. Even if you pump his strength to the "average" 3, we're looking at a wuss who has trouble picking up his wife.

[MatrixJargon]

Fomori are one of the infected, yes? In my mind, it doesn't matter how many bonus build points they get "for free". They're a Vampiric race, and get hunted for bounty. That's a pretty big unadvertised flaw in my book.

<shrug> But then again, I rarely make characters based on their stats. I make characters based on the concept and how I envision it in my head. I made Bull an Ork Decker specifically because, with his racial penalties, it seemed like it would be an unusual race/class combination (So to speak). Of course, by SR3 Bull managed to become an Archetype, but that's beside the point (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In the end, the numbers don't really matter that much. At least, they shouldn't.

Bull

I made my first ork hacker are the same premise of a unique idea. I've also played an ork face which, believe it or not, worked out quite well. Us ork archetypes, we have to stick together chummer. What with the elves attempting to dominate every tabletop.