CGL speculation #4 Options

[Red_Cap]

One thing's for sure: my respect level for Bills and Coleman, built up after so many years of BattleTech novels and sourcebooks, just bottomed out. Other than saying that, I hope that some semblance of the BT & SR lines make it through this shit storm so that I can have my two favorite games ever.

[Ancient History]

I'm Bobby Derie, former Shadowrun freelancer (2005 'til March 2010).

I'm also probably one of Frank's "sources." Frank and I worked together on a few books, and we still talk to one another. I'm certainly not the only freelancer Frank talks to, but we talk about a lot of stuff, including how bad things were getting at Catalyst right before the decision was made to ban me from the freelancer forums and I terminated my contracts. I did not have access to exact figures - hey, I was only freelancer - but I talked (and still talk) to a lot of people and I believe Frank's numbers are probably in the right ballpark. I may be wrong.

[JM Hardy]

So my requests to judge Catalyst's future based on what actually happens, rather than speculation, seem to have run on dry ground. At least, for some people.

Jason H.

[urgru]

@Jason: So it would seem. I'm shocked that an LLC member would comment publicly on this sort of thing given the likelihood of litigation down the road, but people do crazy things sometimes.

[D2F]

So my requests to judge Catalyst's future based on what actually happens, rather than speculation, seem to have run on dry ground. At least, for some people.

Jason H.

It is to be expected. People need answers. Not want, but need. On a very primal, very biological basis. When the humand mind does not get an asnwer, it builds one. From whatever sources it can scavenge. That's rumors in a nutshell.

Especially when a product line with such obvious emotional attachment from it's customer base is starting to appear in trouble, the customers want reassurance. In some cases even insurance.

Your request, Jason, was rational, fair and most probably the best way to go about it. Unfortunately it clashes with "human nature" along the way =/

[Wandering One]

So my requests to judge Catalyst's future based on what actually happens, rather than speculation, seem to have run on dry ground. At least, for some people.

Jason H.

A lack of speculation on the intertubes doesn't allow us to link to old posts to grow our e-peen saying, "Look, I was right! Nyeah nyeah!"

Now, back to the belly button ring thing... was it gotten from a unicorn with a S Corp license? Pics! We wants pics! (Of the unicorn, of course!)

[Ol' Scratch]

In a Google world, figuring out REMOVED's identity wasn't difficult. REMOVED is REMOVED's commonly used nickname and REMOVED is listed as one of REMOVED's founders.

And I think everyone knows who I am, but in case they don't...

Jay "Demonseed Elite" Levine, former Shadowrun freelancer (2000 - 2008)

I'm sure people appreciate having their personal information spread on a message forum without their permission.

[knasser]

Has anyone actually taken Cain's assertions/posts seriously?

Sure. Cain says that Jennifer was forced out. LurkerOutThere says that being put in an untenable position is different to being forced out. He apparently has some definition of force that precludes putting people in untenable positions. I don't see what in Cain's point is so hard to take seriously. If someone came along to me and said commit potentially illegal acts on my behalf and certainly unethical ones, it would pretty much force me out of the company.

@Frank: That was one of the most amusing re-caps I've ever read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[JM Hardy]

It is to be expected. People need answers. Not want, but need. On a very primal, very biological basis. When the humand mind does not get an asnwer, it builds one. From whatever sources it can scavenge. That's rumors in a nutshell.

Especially when a product line with such obvious emotional attachment from it's customer base is starting to appear in trouble, the customers want reassurance. In some cases even insurance.

Your request, Jason, was rational, fair and most probably the best way to go about it. Unfortunately it clashes with "human nature" along the way =/

Your logic is sound, and could very be used in the intro of a sourcebook I've been loosing plotting out. Umberto Eco wrote a fine book, Foucault's Pendulum, about that part of human nature.

Jason H.

[augmentin]

Um... At the risk of rehashing a dying argument (as if that ever stopped me before...) $500k is actually pretty manageable. Especially if there is product ready to ship. Assuming former freelancers who are withholding copyright could be brought back into the fold, a new company have product in GM hands using digital publishing, like, the day after getting the license.

Also, does anyone know what the market value for Shadowrun is? In other words, if no one else wants the license, a new company's offer to Topps only has to be IMR's offer + $1. Or potentially, less money but accompanies with the perception of greater stability. As an unknowledgeable outsider, it certainly appears that a new company with a mere $500k in upfront costs would be very viable. PDF sales and digital publishing of existing product could generate some quick cash flow until a large print purchase could be made for higher margins and new products. Just sayin...

[Ancient History]

Your logic is sound, and could very be used in the intro of a sourcebook I've been loosing plotting out. Umberto Eco wrote a fine book, Foucault's Pendulum, about that part of human nature.

Jason H.

Nigel D. Findley already wrote that book. GURPS Illuminati.

[Derek]

I'm sure people appreciate having their personal information spread on a message forum without their permission.

If you put it in the internet in any way shape or form, you really have no more expectation of privacy, Legally, you might, but realistically, if it is on the internet, it is findable.

[Demonseed Elite]

I'm sure people appreciate having their personal information spread on a message forum without their permission.

Noted and removed. Though it's not a terribly big secret.

[JM Hardy]

Nigel D. Findley already wrote that book. GURPS Illuminati.

I probably won't go quite that far out.

Jason H.

[FrankTrollman]

Noted and removed. Though it's not a terribly big secret.

I don't think you did anything wrong. It took me a couple of seconds to identify Ketjak the same way. I left it at him being "one of the part owners" rather than using his full name, but I don't think anyone who that name means anything to is confused. Public information is pretty much public.

However, I am genuinely exhausted by the constant condemnation of posting information without revealing primary sources coupled with condemning the release of primary source documents. Often by the same people. Let's face it: primary source material such as Loren Coleman's housing transaction records keep getting taken down, either from peer pressure or direct moderator action. I would strongly suggest that at this point people just keep track of who said that Loren Coleman had spent company dimes on his house, and who said they didn't, and keep track of who is trustworthy that way.

-Frank

[Wandering One]

If you put it in the internet in any way shape or form, you really have no more expectation of privacy, Legally, you might, but realistically, if it is on the internet, it is findable.

I could agree with this up to the point that in the age of information, everyone's putting up tons of 'public' information that I wouldn't even be aware of unless I was trying to find myself constantly and repeatedly, and I don't mean the zen version. Luckily my real name is completely overwhelmed by a soccer star.

[Demonseed Elite]

I don't think you did anything wrong. It took me a couple of seconds to identify Ketjak the same way. I left it at him being "one of the part owners" rather than using his full name, but I don't think anyone who that name means anything to is confused. Public information is pretty much public.

I don't really think I did anything wrong either, since he's credited in Battletech books with his name and that nickname. But since you already had the relevant part covered, I figured I may as well leave it to Ketjak to fill in any details if he wants to.

[Dwight]

Sure.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[augmentin]

As someone who posted LLC's housing information (from Google) and had my hand (very lightly) slapped for it, I can appreciate that the moderators are trying to do what they think is best. Obviously, they're very difficult to find and contact until you get your DS degree. I see a need for a policy framework. Unfortunately, it would be too difficult to address every possible occurrence so a policy would be left to extremes. I.E. "Look, we have screen names for a reason. Don't out anyone." Or, "Hey, if it's public, it's fair game." The moderators are admirably trying to find a middle ground, but I think it's impossible. The only possible outcome is an uneven and inconsistent application of the TOS. Kinda like 2009 SEC football. At any rate, it's a free forum so what do you expect? (BTW - it's free!?! Why aren't you guys looking for advertisers? With this dedicated (rapid, obsessive) a fan base, it would be an easy sales pitch.)

[BishopMcQ]

Re: Advertisements - Dumpshock has used them in the past and gotten away from them. Likewise there have been fundraiser drives at different points. The owners and moderators of DSF do what they do, the way they do it. I believe the last decision was to just let it be, and people who donate or buy dinner for the mods do what they do and everyone else lives on the bountiful generosity of "viewers like you."

Re: Outing informers/sources/et al - People will say what they want to. Some of those conversations are held in confidence, others are said with the clear intention that it will be shared. Actions have been taken to identify the leaks internally and ensure that those sharing information are not doing so unlawfully. I am not aware of any individuals who have violated an NDA on file with InMediaRes Productions, LLC. If they had, actions would be taken. That said, if in the future actions are taken, do not expect officials to out them in a public forum.

Thank you,
Stephen "BishopMcQ" McQuillan
Production Manager, IMRPro
Freelancer

[fistandantilus4....]

I see a need for a policy framework.

I'll limit my reply to this for now. It's in the works.

We try to keep everything we moderate on within the confines of the ToS. That being said, it's not going to cover every eventuality. Sometimes, you need to follow the spirit, both in protecting other Users, and our site its self.

Posting Coleman's information for example could have led to more harassment, which would have had it's source here. We're not going to be part of that. Posting a users name is another issue, although granted not such a hot one. Bottom line is that if they want their name out there, they wouldn't be using a handle, would they?

[fistandantilus4....]

..., and people who donate or buy dinner for the mods do what they do ...
Stephen "BishopMcQ" McQuillan
Production Manager, IMRPro
Freelancer

Wait, whaa... when did this happen!? No one bought me dinner! I'm damn hungry too!
*runs off to yell at Bull*

[BishopMcQ]

Come to GenCon then...Last time you were running around with the boot if I recall correctly.

[Patrick Goodman]

Bottom line is that if they want their name out there, they wouldn't be using a handle, would they?

At least not one that they're already publicly associated with, as Ketjak is.

Patrick Goodman, who's never used a handle here
(Although I do use "PGoodman13" as a login on some boards, which some people call me even though I use my real name in my sig)
Shadowrun freelancer and general curmudgeon

[Adam]

Actually, CGL still has Paparazzi, High School Drama, Merchants and the upcoming Leviathans and Balance of Power.

Paparazzi is owned by Posthuman Studios, and Catalyst never finalized a contract with them -- me -- for the game.