CGL Speculation #5, It continues Options

[Adam]

XE.com is saying : 1 CAD = 1.00209 USD 1 USD = 0.997918 CAD
CAD Wins ! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

As someone living in Canada typically getting paid in USD, I do not consider this a win. :/

[BTFreeLancer]

1. The battletech forums are a CGL forum and have "different" moderation

which is important, but even on the unofficial BT forums this hasn't received anywhere as near as much airplay as it has on the SR side of things. HMP, BTU, Solaris7 etc etc - the traditional "CGL is killing BattleTech!" haunts - it's not received anywhere nears as much attention.

2. Battletech has a different community.

more to the point I think - from the get go, Frank's original post basically made this all about how SR was affected, how SR freelancers were out of pocket, how SR books were being withheld. BT also has a long and open association with Randall Bills, so were more willing to support his decisions as stated in the CGL release. Frank was unknown, so they had no reason to trust what he said, and besides he'd made it all about SR.

The other fact of the matter is that of the staff that left, only Dave Stansel-Garner had any real connection to the BT community (Troy arguably), and that was mainly through the early days of BattleCorps. Adam did layout on a few (very good) books, but he was never really considered a part of the BT community (he might dispute that though), and Jennifer Harding was an unknown, even to the people that sent her their W-7s and the like when requested. So their leaving was not the huge loss to BT as it was to the SR community. I think that's the majority of the difference between the two communities.

[Adam]

Adam did layout on a few (very good) books, but he was never really considered a part of the BT community (he might dispute that though)

Not really. I think I did very good work on very good and very important projects (for those who don't know: The BattleTech Introductory Box Set, Total Warfare, TechManual, Tactical Operations, and the revised versions of the box set were my major BattleTech projects ... oh yeah, and the HexPacks were initially my concept, coming from a discussion with David about, ironically, trying to figure out some other projects that we could do for Shadowrun that weren't books.)

I had a small relationship with the BattleTech community, and I like to think it was a positive one, but my role wasn't about community engagement -- it was about making beautiful useful books, even when Randall said something like "Put this extra 800 words on this page." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[tweak]

Not really. I think I did very good work on very good and very important projects (for those who don't know: The BattleTech Introductory Box Set, Total Warfare, TechManual, Tactical Operations, and the revised versions of the box set were my major BattleTech projects ... oh yeah, and the HexPacks were initially my concept, coming from a discussion with David about, ironically, trying to figure out some other projects that we could do for Shadowrun that weren't books.)

I had a small relationship with the BattleTech community, and I like to think it was a positive one, but my role wasn't about community engagement -- it was about making beautiful useful books, even when Randall said something like "Put this extra 800 words on this page." (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I actual think the layout work you did on the Battletech stuff is better than the layout work you did on the SR stuff. You'll be missed!

[Kronk2]

The basics: Catalyst is behind on freelancer payments, which has been tied to the co-mingling of business and personal funds. The lateness of the payments, and other factors, led to some freelancers withholding their copyrights on some work or terminating contracts. That has meant some books, namely Seattle 2072, Running Wild, Vice, and Dawn of the Artifacts 1 and 2, are not on sale at the moment. Payments have been made for some books, and I hope to have news about them being back on sale shortly.

The situation has also meant that sections of some books had to be re-written. That is currently happening. Once the text is approved, edited, and laid out, then more books will be ready. The next in line is Corporate Guide, then Sixth World Almanac, Dawn of the Artifacts 3, and Runner's Toolkit (not necessarily in that order). Work on other books to follow those is proceeding apace.

The Shadowrun license is due for renewal at the end of May. Catalyst personnel have been in discussions with Topps about this, but I have no decisions to report at the moment.

That's where the game stands. As I've mentioned before, I'm going to keep working on it until someone in a position of authority tells me that I can't any more. That hasn't happened yet.

Jason H.

Thank you Sir,
I really do appreciate someone cutting things down to the plain truth for me and skipping all the (heated) emotions bouncing around here.
Edit for post script.
I have enjoyed all the work you folks have done, and I hope that you are allowed to keep making me slightly envious every week.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Side Note: If you ever set up a business, have a separate checking account for the business and move funds between your personal and business account - with notes as to why you moved them. It's a bookkeeping pain but solves lots of problems, like this one.

-M&P

Very, very sage advice!

As someone living in Canada typically getting paid in USD, I do not consider this a win. :/

Heh...wait till the US dollar is worth less than a Mexican peso! (Increasing the US monetary supply 130% is a bad thing)
I am planning on sneaking across the US/Canadian border to shovel snow in the winters! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Fuchs]

All that spin doctoring by what's left of Catalyst is so transparent. As someone used to dealing with lawyers, especially in court, one cannot help but see the double-speak and semi-truth in the statements of JM Hardy.

[Fuchs]

Thank you Sir,
I really do appreciate someone cutting things down to the plain truth for me and skipping all the (heated) emotions bouncing around here.
Edit for post script.
I have enjoyed all the work you folks have done, and I hope that you are allowed to keep making me slightly envious every week.

Please don't tell me you are serious. That stuff up there is, while likely "true" in a strict sense of the word, as far from what we commonly see as "plain truth" as a "the steering was not impeded and the car was, with some exceptions, working as intended" statement about a catastrophical brake failure in a car. Nominally and technically true, but intended to divert attention from what actually happened - which was left out.

[Cthulhudreams]

Frank Trollman is on a crusade. He wants CGL down so he will paint them has the devil. He also paint himself in the corner for many fans. I am one of them that just think he should stop talking. He did his part of the butterfly effect and he should wait for the tsunami to happen.

I just hope everything settle.

This is just nuts: He posts the graphs on another forum, an LLC owner verifes that they are real, you say he should stop talking?

What, posting factual infomation is somehow bad? If his posting offends you, just don't go to the gaming den, and SNAP, you won't see it.

[JM Hardy]

All that spin doctoring by what's left of Catalyst is so transparent. As someone used to dealing with lawyers, especially in court, one cannot help but see the double-speak and semi-truth in the statements of JM Hardy.

I tried to present things in as neutral a way as possible. Long experience, including with political debates, has shown that different people's definition of "neutral" varies--I'm sorry I didn't meet your definition. But it was impossible to meet everyone's definition, given the varying opinions here.

Jason H.

[Demonseed Elite]

The reason the many in the community are so upset with Loren L Coleman and CGL/IMR is that while these owner's draw were taking place, freelancers were not being paid.

To go beyond that a bit, checks were even bouncing. And not just for freelancers, for developers too. So in some cases, it appears that CGL was writing checks and Mr. Coleman was withdrawing too much from the account the checks were written from without telling anyone he was doing it.

Re: "Most freelancers have quit." It's a tricky phrase, because there's no context. Most of the Shadowrun freelancers I worked with are no longer working on Shadowrun or are telling me they are at the end of their patience with CGL (and some have simply moved on to other games, like Eclipse Phase). This doesn't make them most of the current pool of Shadowrun freelancers, because the ones who have already left have been replaced with new writers. So, in that interpretation, Jason is totally correct. But there's definitely a "revolving door" issue with the freelancer pool, much more so on the Shadowrun side than on the Battletech side.

Re: Frank's agenda. Yes, Frank has an agenda. So does Catalyst. So do I. Each one of those agendas are different. Frank's posts have a certain slant because he would like to see certain things happen. I think he'd like to see the Shadowrun license free of Catalyst control. He'd also like to see the freelancers unionize (he made a number of posts saying so on RPG.net). The fact that he has an agenda does not invalidate his posts. Which is good, because I don't think you're going to find an impartial voice in this whole mess.

[Fuchs]

I tried to present things in as neutral a way as possible. Long experience, including with political debates, has shown that different people's definition of "neutral" varies--I'm sorry I didn't meet your definition. But it was impossible to meet everyone's definition, given the varying opinions here.

Jason H.

Unless you can present all the relevant info, presenting a (very carefully chosen and formulated) part of the info is not neutral by any definition of the word. It really reminds me of a lawyer trying to present the deeds of his client in the best light possible, but going too far and ending up pretty much ignoring the real issues in a manner that makes them stand out even more.

I'd advice you to stop spin doctoring, and come clean - state CGL's side of what exactly was asked of Tiger eyes to make her quit, how many freelancers were not paid since when, what the financial situation of CGL is, and how bad the mingling of funds was by Coleman.

Stating stuff that translates into "Forced to by withheld copyright, we are paying freelancers, and rewrite parts where we can't or won't pay" isn't really helping when we want to know if you'll continue what seems - from statements by former freelancers - a policy of not paying freelancers on time, or at all for years.

I'd also advice you to take a long, hard look at your employer and its history, and ask yourself if you really can, morally, ethically, legally and logically, keep working for them. Then explain why you, personally, do keep working while others quit.

As it is you look like the iraqi minister of information, claiming all is well and there are no americans in Bagdad while CNN reports live from the town, following the US troops.

[Demonseed Elite]

Unless you can present all the relevant info, presenting a (very carefully chosen and formulated) part of the info is not neutral by any definition of the word. It really reminds me of a lawyer trying to present the deeds of his client in the best light possible, but shooting way overboard and ending up pretty much ignoring the real issues in a manner that makes them stand out even more.

I'd advice you to stop spin doctoring, and come clean - state CGL's side of what exactly was asked of Tiger eyes to make her quit, how many freelancers were not paid since when, what the financial situation of CGL is, and how bad the mingling of funds was by Coleman.

Stating stuff that translates into "Forced to by withheld copyright, we are paying freelancers, and rewrite parts where we can't or won't pay" isn't really helping when we want to know if you'll continue what seems - from statements by former freelancers - a policy of not paying freelancers on time, or at all for years.

I'd also advice you to take a long, hard look at your employer and its history, and ask yourself if you really can, morally, ethically, legally and logically, keep working for them. Then explain why you, personally, do keep working while others quit.

As it is you look like the iraqi minister of information, claiming all is well and there are no americans in Bagdad while CNN reports live from the town, following the US troops.

Jason can't do that. He's not in a position to answer most of those questions. Not only because he's still an employee of InMediaRes, but also because he's the Shadowrun Line Developer, and many of those questions fall outside the scope of his job description.

If you really feel those questions should be answered on a public forum (and there's a lot of debate there about whether that's necessary or wise), Jason's not the person to aim your ire at.

[Fuchs]

Oh, I don't expect him to answer them - but I get fed up with him spreading news about the menu table in the dining room while people wonder whether or not the ship is sinking. If the plates start sliding from the table you should not keep talking exclusively about the food on the plate and ignore the listing of the ship.

I think far too many forget that Jason is, as you said, an employe of CGL. And is still an employe of CGL while a lot of others have quit, or were fired. As you pointed out his statements are incredibly biased.

[DireRadiant]

As it is you look like the iraqi minister of information, claiming all is well and there are no americans in Bagdad while CNN reports live from the town, following the US troops.

Please remember the terms of service.

Jason Hardy is clearly and openly representing himself as the Product Line Developer for CGL and is making statements with that role in mind. If he does choose to make any personal expression of opinion I am certain he will clearly do so. Otherwise his posts have been clearly statements from performing that role for CGL.

[JM Hardy]

Unless you can present all the relevant info, presenting a (very carefully chosen and formulated) part of the info is not neutral by any definition of the word. It really reminds me of a lawyer trying to present the deeds of his client in the best light possible, but shooting way overboard and ending up pretty much ignoring the real issues in a manner that makes them stand out even more.

I'd advice you to stop spin doctoring, and come clean - state CGL's side of what exactly was asked of Tiger eyes to make her quit, how many freelancers were not paid since when, what the financial situation of CGL is, and how bad the mingling of funds was by Coleman.

Stating stuff that translates into "Forced to by withheld copyright, we are paying freelancers, and rewrite parts where we can't or won't pay" isn't really helping when we want to know if you'll continue what seems - from statements by former freelancers - a policy of not paying freelancers on time, or at all for years.

I'd also advice you to take a long, hard look at your employer and its history, and ask yourself if you really can, morally, ethically, legally and logically, keep working for them. Then explain why you, personally, do keep working while others quit.

As it is you look like the iraqi minister of information, claiming all is well and there are no americans in Bagdad while CNN reports live from the town, following the US troops.

As I've mentioned before, there are some things that will remain confidential. I'm sorry if people are upset by that, I'm sorry if they feel that forces them to believe one thing or the other, but that's the way it is. Sometimes there are concerns that override people's desire to know things.

Like what? Well, here's one concern--reporting on conversations to which I was not a witness. That's simply not something I am willing to do. Another thing I'm not willing to do for a wide assortment of reasons is comment on people's employment status. One reason for that is those are not my decisions to make. Another reason is it simply is bad form, in many ways, for people associated with a business to make public comments of that nature.

Now, you can believe anything you'd like about me--that I am a soulless minister of information, that I have not done any self-examination, or whatever. People have been constructing all sorts of narratives about what is happening based on the facts as they believe them, so why should my decisions not be included in that? But perhaps there are some facts to remember, such as the fact that I did extensive freelancing for both Shadowrun and Battletech before (and even after) I became line developer. Thus, I am one of the freelancers who is owed money.

I'm sure people can construct all sorts of fun narratives from that fact. I have no self-esteem, so I'm willing to let companies walk all over me! I'm only staying because I'm on the take, too! The job of line developer was given to me to shut me up! Those are just a few off the top of my head; I'm sure people can do better. But here's what I've said: I've stated before that my number one goal is to advance Shadowrun and keep good material coming out for the game line. That's my focus. I've also stated that I'm aware of the pain of being an unpaid freelancer, and I am not happy that the situation has continued as long as it has. I want freelancers paid, and there is only one way to do this--get Shadowrun healthy with Catalyst. If Catalyst goes away, nobody gets paid. I want them paid.

Jason H.

[Fuchs]

Please remember the terms of service.

Jason Hardy is clearly and openly representing himself as the Product Line Developer for CGL and is making statements with that role in mind. If he does choose to make any personal expression of opinion I am certain he will clearly do so. Otherwise his posts have been clearly statements from performing that role for CGL.

Yes. As that minister was openly and clearly representing the iraqi government at the time, and was making statements with that role in mind. How exactly does pointing out that violate the terms of service?

[Demonseed Elite]

Oh, I don't expect him to answer them - but I get fed up with him spreading news about the menu table in the dining room while people wonder whether or not the ship is sinking. If the plates start sliding from the table you should not keep talking exclusively about the food on the plate and ignore the listing of the ship.

I think far too many forget that Jason is, as you said, an employe of CGL. And is still an employe of CGL while a lot of others have quit, or were fired. As you pointed out his statements are incredibly biased.

Well, yeah, like I said above, there aren't many impartial parties in this situation. Jason's doing an admirable job as IMR's public relations spokesperson--mostly because that's not at all his job and it's not a fun job to do--but yes, he's still basically playing the role of IMR's public relations spokesperson. Which isn't exactly impartial.

Jason's job is to put out good Shadowrun books and that's really the standard people should hold him to.

[Fuchs]

I'm sure people can construct all sorts of fun narratives from that fact. I have no self-esteem, so I'm willing to let companies walk all over me! I'm only staying because I'm on the take, too! The job of line developer was given to me to shut me up! Those are just a few off the top of my head; I'm sure people can do better. But here's what I've said: I've stated before that my number one goal is to advance Shadowrun and keep good material coming out for the game line. That's my focus. I've also stated that I'm aware of the pain of being an unpaid freelancer, and I am not happy that the situation has continued as long as it has. I want freelancers paid, and there is only one way to do this--get Shadowrun healthy with Catalyst. If Catalyst goes away, nobody gets paid. I want them paid.

Jason H.

I do not believe that the only way to pay freelancers is to keep Loren involved, or even in charge. I do not believe that anything healthy can come from letting someone who was - using the most favorable point of view - mingling personal and corporate funds - be involved.

And so far no one could say why Catalyst needs Loren.

[Fuchs]

Jason's job is to put out good Shadowrun books and that's really the standard people should hold him to.

I agree. That doesn't mean he has to act as a spin doctor though.

[Demonseed Elite]

And so far no one could say why Catalyst needs Loren.

Actually, Randall gave his point of view on this topic in the leaked letter to the freelancers. I don't really agree with his point of view, but hey, it's there.

[Arclight]

And so far no one could say why Catalyst needs Loren.

Because "titans in the industry" called Randall Bills and advised him to keep Mr Coleman involved in daily operations at CGL because of "the connections he forged within the industry" and his "strategic thinking". You can find that part in the E-Mail from Mr Bills posted somewhere in Thread 2 or 3, I think.

[tweak]

Because "titans in the industry" called Randall Bills and advised him to keep Mr Coleman involved in daily operations at CGL because of "the connections he forged within the industry" and his "strategic thinking". You can find that part in the E-Mail from Mr Bills posted somewhere in Thread 2 or 3, I think.

Huh? There are titans in the RPG industry? Who knew? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[urgru]

I do not believe that the only way to pay freelancers is to keep Loren involved, or even in charge. I do not believe that anything healthy can come from letting someone who was - using the most favorable point of view - mingling personal and corporate funds - be involved.

And so far no one could say why Catalyst needs Loren.

Consider this another way. How can Catalyst get rid of Loren L. Coleman? He has an ownership stake in the LLC that doesn't evaporate simply because ther have been questionable draws. "Uninvolving" an LLC owner/partner is non-trivially difficult. In addition to some of the accounting tricks mentioned above as tools to shift tax burdens, some of the draws could conceivably be recast as diversions from the other owners to him as part of a buyout or buydown, but that's a potentially complex transaction and may or may not be possible in Catalyst's charter state (esp. as a post facto bandaid). Lots of lawyering and accounting involved in all this, which is one reason you can't and won't see quick answers.

[Fuchs]

Because "titans in the industry" called Randall Bills and advised him to keep Mr Coleman involved in daily operations at CGL because of "the connections he forged within the industry" and his "strategic thinking". You can find that part in the E-Mail from Mr Bills posted somewhere in Thread 2 or 3, I think.

I dismissed that as drivel since I do not believe having someone who, in the most positive interpretation, mingled personal and corproate funds, involved in daily operations is anything else but a serious problem for any enterprise.