CGL Speculation #5, It continues Options

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Addressing the more speculation over at Geek Related...

So Dumpshock is a snooty forum?

Standard smear campaign against the freelancers and others who are coming forward with all these details?

The innuendo that Frank Trollman was banned for something other than...well we have talked that one to death already.


Wow, it must be nice to have a blog where innuendo, half-truths, lies, gasoline and matches are freely used at the same time, in the same room. I am reminded of something that Albert Einstein once said, "Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either."

[hermit]

And as Otakusensei said, you could count me as one of those people that would like to see more expanded material on being LBTG in Shadowrun. Seeing that material in Augmentation felt like a shout-out to folks who would like to see more of that kind of material in gaming. Shadowrun is one of the few games that even mentions that sort of thing in their rules (aside from the general sex-change antics you see in D&D or other games) or spotlights it (Exalted coming to mind).

LBTG? I assume you mean LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered)? If so, what, exactly, has being homo- or heterosexual (assuming you meant that and not some obscure fetish) to do with kinky sex implants? Because straight people don't do kinky stuff, is that it? 3 out of 4 can work perfectly fine without a dick in their forehead. And as for the trans - it's nice to see it mentioned, but sexchange has been possible ever since the 1st Ed, with Shadowtech. I would not consider this transhuman as well, unless you want to insinuate neither homo- nor bi- or transsexuals actually are human. Which would be kinda weird, since you said you identify with parts of them.

For LGBT, Shadowrun has established a policy of most cultures not giving much of a damn about it for some time now, which is probably the sort of compromise everyone can live with, I guess.

The referenced stuff is not really relevant to transhumanism anyway. It's inflatable cyber boobs and cyberdicks in someone's forehead. Which deserves a mention, sure, because it should exist in a cyberpunk world, but certainly not an entire book or even more than a few paragraphs. It was done okay, it probably did not need stats, but meh, it's no national disaster if it has stats either. It is okay the way it is, IMNSHO.

So Dumpshock is a snooty forum?

Standard smear campaign against the freelancers and others who are coming forward with all these details?

Dumpshock s not part of the Cult of Trollman, and Frank, to these people, apparently is the epitome of all freelancers and others who offered information on this matter.

Well, it is a blog. What did you expect, except slanted recapitulating of things that have already been said a hundred times, and a few pseudo-witty comments?

[Bob Lord of Evil]

Dumpshock s not part of the Cult of Trollman, and Frank, to these people, apparently is the epitome of all freelancers and others who offered information on this matter.

Well, it is a blog. What did you expect, except slanted recapitulating of things that have already been said a hundred times, and a few pseudo-witty comments?

Words have real power and all power should be used prudently and with judicious restraint.

[otakusensei]

LBTG? I assume you mean LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered)? If so, what, exactly, has being homo- or heterosexual (assuming you meant that and not some obscure fetish) to do with kinky sex implants? Because straight people don't do kinky stuff, is that it? 3 out of 4 can work perfectly fine without a dick in their forehead. And as for the trans - it's nice to see it mentioned, but sexchange has been possible ever since the 1st Ed, with Shadowtech. I would not consider this transhuman as well, unless you want to insinuate neither homo- nor bi- or transsexuals actually are human. Which would be kinda weird, since you said you identify with parts of them.

For LGBT, Shadowrun has established a policy of most cultures not giving much of a damn about it for some time now, which is probably the sort of compromise everyone can live with, I guess.

The referenced stuff is not really relevant to transhumanism anyway. It's inflatable cyber boobs and cyberdicks in someone's forehead. Which deserves a mention, sure, because it should exist in a cyberpunk world, but certainly not an entire book or even more than a few paragraphs. It was done okay, it probably did not need stats, but meh, it's no national disaster if it has stats either. It is okay the way it is, IMNSHO.

More than anything, I think including those elements gives the setting flavor. While I'm sure the folks who really want a cyber-dick on their forehead will work the rules out themselves, seeing it in print caused me to look again and think "Oh my, this is a gritty setting...". With all of it's violence and transhumanism, I don't think Shadowrun ever really felt gritty to me. Sure I had some down and out characters, but you don't own a 9,000¥ handgun without knowing how to score the perks you need to make life worth living.

With stuff like adjustable cyber-boobs and bunraku parlors in the rule set I was more aware of the seedier parts of the setting. Sort of a reminder that not everything at the cyberclinic was meant to make me move faster and shoot straighter. Add to that the 4th ed emphasis on fiction and you have an unprecedented level of immersion in setting. I've pointed several new players to the section on body modification in Augmentation, and while they always make their way to Move-by-Wire eventually, they sometimes have fur and blue hair by that point. Even if you don't personally go in for that you have to start asking questions about what type of people you see on the streets and how you treat people. Characters get more depth, so do stories. A win all around as far as I'm concerned.

Edit: For the record, my characters tend toward plain vanilla humans who use the bathroom they were born to, but I respect if someone wants to do whatever they can think of with a character. As long as what you are doesn't get in the way of the run, you can do your own thing. You might need to stay in the van while we meet the Johnson though, and as soon as you become a liability to me getting paid your player better be ready with a new character sheet. Otherwise I'll run with anyone/anything.

[Wesley Street]

LBTG? I assume you mean LGBT (Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgendered)? If so, what, exactly, has being homo- or heterosexual (assuming you meant that and not some obscure fetish) to do with kinky sex implants? Because straight people don't do kinky stuff, is that it? 3 out of 4 can work perfectly fine without a dick in their forehead.

You're not being particularly tactful or clearheaded here. Of course straight people augment their sexual organs. So do homosexuals. It's all part of the human equation.

And as for the trans - it's nice to see it mentioned, but sexchange has been possible ever since the 1st Ed, with Shadowtech. I would not consider this transhuman as well, unless you want to insinuate neither homo- nor bi- or transsexuals actually are human. Which would be kinda weird, since you said you identify with parts of them.

Of course it's transhuman. Making fire with two sticks is transhuman so you better believe reassigning your gender with a medical procedure is. And I don't know where you're getting the idea that transhumanism means dropping your humanity (that's posthumanism) as that's a very weird thing to say.

The referenced stuff is not really relevant to transhumanism anyway. It's inflatable cyber boobs and cyberdicks in someone's forehead. Which deserves a mention, sure, because it should exist in a cyberpunk world, but certainly not an entire book or even more than a few paragraphs. It was done okay, it probably did not need stats, but meh, it's no national disaster if it has stats either. It is okay the way it is, IMNSHO.

I think you read a different and freakier version of Augmentation than I did. Or you're projecting. IMNSHO.

[The Dragon Girl]

Although I can think of a perfectly good shadowrunning reason to have those things: Modular penis and inflatable boobs means being able to quickly and thoroughly disguise onesself as either gender, which could be -very- handy. Some nano paste, wigs, and an interesting wardrobe and even your teammates might have trouble telling when its you, or even which gender you're -supposed- to be. Infiltration specialists ftw

[nezumi]

Okay, I have to ask...

Is a lesbian with a nano-weiner still a lesbian?

[Ancient History]

I think lesbianism is not dependent on attachments.

[Werewindlefr]

Okay, I have to ask...

Is a lesbian with a nano-weiner still a lesbian?

(S)He is what s(he) is. Screw labels, they do not define the person, what they do does.

[X-Kalibur]

It's a state of mind so much as a state of being.

[Pepsi Jedi]

What I do NOT understand... is where all this boob and penis hate is coming from!?!?!?

The more breasts and penises that are out there the better!

Runner's don't run the Shadow's all the time. I'm all for Elves having some bio-breasts and stuff! More power to um!

[otakusensei]

Man, it just occurred to me how seriously off topic we are here. However it's amazingly civil considering. Good on you all, Dumpshock.

[Method]

Yep, I'd say its about that time.

CGL speculation can be moved to here.

Cyberpenis discussions can go elsewhere.