Erratas Options

[sn0mm1s]

I believe the discussion centers on spirits that are high enough Force to have a sizeable Counterspelling effect and also have a viable Immunity to Normal Weapons. Such spirits are seen to be proof against both mundane and magical attacks.

I argue that such a spirit will be tough against such attacks, but because of its very Force will have few services owing its conjurer, and therefore be susceptible to a quick Banishing. Neither armour nor Counterspelling affects the use of that Skill.

Even with ItNW, the spirit isn't stacking armor. A maxed called shot with AP should be more than enough to hurt a spirit. Not to mention, if you are going up against a high force spirit it is still only getting 2 IPs. A stock Ares Predator is 5P base + 4 called shot + 1 AP for the gun + 4 AP for the ammo means a gun slinger needs 1 net hit to hurt a Force 7 spirit. God forbid you have a team member with a top of the line sniper rifle. With a Barrett (not exactly hard to get ahold of) 9P base + 4 called shot + 4 AP for the gun + 4 AP for the ammo means you are destroying Force 10 spirits with relative ease.

A mage has it even easier. Overcast a Force 12 spell and one shot the spirit - use Edge if needed.

[Ol' Scratch]

But he has counterspelling! Magic is useless!

[Machiavelli]

Now you got it. Finally.^^

[Sengir]

I argue that such a spirit will be tough against such attacks, but because of its very Force will have few services owing its conjurer, and therefore be susceptible to a quick Banishing. Neither armour nor Counterspelling affects the use of that Skill.

Or a more fatalistic approach: If the spirit has enough counterspelling dice to really be invulnerable against magic attacks, he doesn't actually need those dice. Who needs counterspelling with enough initiative (plus edge) and damage output?

[Machiavelli]

Tell this to your fellow samurai the next time you forget to give him spell-defense.^^

[Sengir]

Tell this to your fellow samurai the next time you forget to give him spell-defense.^^

If the sam had the same stats as a materialized force 10+ guardian spirit I certainly would

[Machiavelli]

I doubt that he has.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Now you got it. Finally.^^

The point that you are missing is that the spellcaster PROBABLY has more spellcasting dice than the spirit that is counterspelling... One net hit with a Force 12 spell (using the example above that you were referencing, perhaps indirectly) results in a Spirit of Force 9 or less being disrupted entirely (13 Boxes of Damage vs. the 13 Health Boxes of the Spirit), assuming that you are on the Astral Plane of course, as their health boxes will vary based upon physical stats on the material...

You also have guns, Explosives, Weapon Foci, and various other things tha can be used to eliminate that spirit... none the least of which is another spirit... there are myriad ways to remove a spirit from the equation...

Keep the Faith