Giving the massive kill-machine a job Options

[Kazuhiro]

Players whose approach to character creation makes it seem like they just finished a runthrough of Gears of War 2 and have forgotten the point of Shadowrun present a unique problem. One of my players, and I'm sure you've all had characters like this in your games, is playing a character whose primary ability is shooting people very hard without dying. He's not sneaky, knowledgeable, tech savvy, charming, Awakened, or well connected.

In Shadowrun, these people stand far apart from the people who are of different archetypes. Fully automatic fire, as we all know, is incredibly destructive. But generally, 1) it's a bad idea to have the streetsam fighting off corp-sec all by himself and 2) when the other characters are sneaking, astral projecting, and hacking, they don't appreciate this guy counting up his modifiers for firing off a 12-round burst of EX-EX from his heavily modified Ares Alpha.

He has silencers when he needs them, but generally every time you kill someone, you risk getting caught in the act. What do characters like this do when they aren't allowed to cause wanton destruction?

[Kyrel]

Very simple. They have a problem. Or challenge if you will.

[Banaticus]

If the other PC's in the group are really so sneaky and they really don't like him, then they shouldn't have any problem just disappearing when he's not looking then going off on the run without him, right?

That being said, I think you'd need two things to be able to shoot people with a silenced gun:
1. Someplace to hide the bodies. If people come across the body, you've basically lost.
2. Some way to get rid of the evidence that you shot someone (e.g. the Sterilize spell).

[Kazuhiro]

Well, as a GM what should I do with him? He enjoys "creating diversions" with the obligatory party armored car (don't even pretend that every single group doesn't eventually decide to get one of these) but when he's so far above the others in combat ability, that's about the only thing he can do. I can't have him smashing down the front door and shooting everything that moves, for multitudes of reasons, the main one being that it's a waste of the other characters' abilities for plan A to be "shoot lots of guys."

[Wandering One]

Well, as a GM what should I do with him? He enjoys "creating diversions" with the obligatory party armored car (don't even pretend that every single group doesn't eventually decide to get one of these) but when he's so far above the others in combat ability, that's about the only thing he can do. I can't have him smashing down the front door and shooting everything that moves, for multitudes of reasons, the main one being that it's a waste of the other characters' abilities for plan A to be "shoot lots of guys."

I hate to be brutal, but he's in the wrong campaign with that character then. If you're enforcing repurcussions, this guy is a glowing target for whatever pretends to be police in your area. He needs a subset of skills, at least, to offset the combat monster, or the player has to understand he's a nitch character who's entire purpose is for when things go *wrong*, not part of the plan in the first place.

... or your campaign has to go completely off the hinges. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Extraterritoriality means that if Lone Star can't demand access to the corp lands, they don't have to prosecute crimes there, either, things like that.

[Draco18s]

Drop a bridge on them. I had a GM do that before I'd gotten a chance to even be in combat.

Though, to be fair it was That Other Game and I was no match for a destriken as its CR was about twice that of the party. And we were split up. And the GM was a notorious dick. Ruke and I quit the game after that session.

Did I say I never saw combat? Yes, I did didn't I.

Guess how many sessions in we were.

Three. And our first combat was against a bunch of humanoid red aberations riding a giant spider that was so large it had its own outpost on its back. Unless you count all the times we ran away from destrikens. The entire party couldn't take one and then we got split up and had two or three chasing a single character or a pair of characters. And then one dropped a bridge on me (I spent 5 rounds of combat digging myself out--to be fair, I hadn't rolled higher than a 4 until the fourth round).

[tagz]

I have a policy not to radically alter the security presence I had intended for ONE PLAYER. The group, yes, but not a single player.

If that one player is so far above the other characters in a field that to challenge said character the task is fatal or impossible (not improbable) to others who have similar roles, then I feel the player does not WANT to be challenged. So I do not seek to challenge said player and they quickly become bored with their concept and want to move on the next one. Perhaps they will repeat it in a different way, maybe they'll learn they should keep themselves in check with the group's capabilities, who knows.

To be honest, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to blow off some steam by making an unstoppable powerhouse, but I'm not going to tailor the game to one person out of many. Don't think you're expected to either.


That said, you can always just have a mental manipulation mage thought control him into throwing down his weapons, handcuffing himself, and marching himself straight into a jail cell. The next run could be with him forced to make use of skills that have nothing to do with combat (being interrogated, lock-picking the cell, making the right friends in prison or get shanked in his sleep...) while the rest of the group plans a break out. Just an idea.

[ClemulusRex]

While there is certainly a place in the Sixth World for people that just know how to hurt people, If the kill-machine is consistently stomping on the other players' sense of fun and enjoyment because of a difference in play-style, then yes, something about the character and/or player has got to change. Try appealing to the player for that exact reason--his trigger-happy attitude is spoiling the sense of theme for the other players and that unless he compromises somehow, their characters probably don't have much in-game reason to continue working with them.

What's the character's background? If he's a former soldier, try pointing out that even the most straight-forward infantry grunt probably has some kind of Infiltration skill. A former gangbanger/mob soldier should have plenty of Intimidation and other social skills and is more likely to use the threat of violence than violence itself.

Of course, that means that you as the GM should compromise by letting him shine at his preferred task once or twice a session. It doesn't necessarily have to be directly a part of or tied the the run, either. Maybe they get harassed by gangers going to or from the run. Their escape through the sewers is cut off by ghouls, etc. But every once in a while, just have things go south, whether by betrayal or bad luck, and finally the group really needs him there to just blow their way out through hordes of corpsec. Then, he'll have his fun, and the rest of the players might finally value having him around.

[AndyZ]

There's a few ways to handle this but it depends on how much tough love you're willing to give.

Personally, I'd consider dropping a few Steel Lynxes with Vindicator Miniguns on him while he's creating a distraction. That way he can find out just how lethal Shadowrun really is and that pouncing straight into a fight isn't always your best bet.

It can help to have him follow along nearby as backup. If anyone gets in trouble, he can run up guns blazing, but otherwise he just has to stay quiet until he gets some other skills. Depending on the talents of the rest of the crew, though, this could get mighty boring. If you do this and the rest of the group is very good, throw him the occasional bone with high security that he can plow through.

You could talk to him and ask if he'd be willing to try something else and be less of a one-trick slayer. Maybe there's something else the group needs and he could try it out. It could be that he just doesn't understand the rest of the stuff yet and is sticking to basics.

If all else fails, assuming nobody else in the party is doing so, have him controlling the party vehicle.

Hope some of that helps

[Kagetenshi]

Sometimes nothing helps a clean exit like security getting mowed down like flies on the other side of the compound.

This also solves the problem of having to fight the whole place by himself (he doesn't, he just needs to kill the first-responders and then book), though it does split the team and create more work.

~J

[Shot]

It does seem as though your friend made the oddly annoying One-Shot power gamer...Being the gm i am surprise that you allowed him to play him or ditn't guided him to more usefulness . Now for clarification i am all for the deadly game of shadowrun combat, i personally get a high off the fact that one wrong dice roll could mean i die. but a power gamer usually ruins it all. best bet is to set down said Player and tell it to him straight. He needs to diversify himself to be a Lot more useful and to fit in. But adding combat isnt that hard, there is always a non-wireless networked sealed off guarded places that need a drone plant to access the secret files of horizon, and could allow you to sharpen your gm skills. Remember change is hard but is often more rewarding then being annoyed and closed off.

[BlueMax]

The point of Shadowrun isn't something I consider well enough defined to have a canon version. From my aged POV, the point is to have fun. If he has fun mowing down enemies with his character, and the rest of the group isn't too pissed off: victory.


BlueMax

[The Jopp]

Let him babysit an entire daycare center.

Put the character in the situation of defending a high profile target (the five year old child of X Ceo) and the daycare center where they are is bombed/collapsed.

Now the team is trapped in a building (all kids are safe in the same room - it was nap time) and need to keep the kids calm until rescue arrives (or dig themselves out).

[Ascalaphus]

Does he feel like he needs* all that fighting power, or does he just enjoy having it? If he thinks he needs all that power, is he somehow justified? Sometimes this can be a matter of just not realizing how you could do it in a different manner, or maybe your opposition is quite tough.
If he just wants to destroy things, well, in that case you could see if there's anything else he'd also enjoy doing, and otherwise best look for a new player. (Assuming you don't want to run that style of campaign.)

* Does he understand that the goal is getting the MacGuffin, not exterminating the Dungeon?

[Whipstitch]

The point of Shadowrun isn't something I consider well enough defined to have a canon version.

Yeah, it's a game where you could say it's like Ronin or Escape from New York and be right either way.

[toturi]

Does he feel like he needs* all that fighting power, or does he just enjoy having it? If he thinks he needs all that power, is he somehow justified? Sometimes this can be a matter of just not realizing how you could do it in a different manner, or maybe your opposition is quite tough.
If he just wants to destroy things, well, in that case you could see if there's anything else he'd also enjoy doing, and otherwise best look for a new player. (Assuming you don't want to run that style of campaign.)

* Does he understand that the goal is getting the MacGuffin, not exterminating the Dungeon?

Ah but his method is getting the MacGuffin by exterminating the Dungeon.

[Ascalaphus]

Ah but his method is getting the MacGuffin by exterminating the Dungeon.

While I don't really approve of "punish the player so he'll learn" passive-aggressive revenge strategies for the GM, this is how I'd do it (if I were to):

Set him up to fall down deep; let it be successful for a while. But make sure you give him notoriety every time. Make sure everyone notices word starts to get around. Johnsons make comments about it; getting work might be a little harder because the best Johnsons don't want the team anymore, but second-rate Johnsons can't be as picky.
Eventually, you lead him into a trap; he'll die in battle, but he can't say he didn't see it coming. It was due a long time.

A big part of doing nasty things to PCs is making sure the players understand just how they themselves were responsible for it happening. It shouldn't look like random GM malice.

[Smokeskin]

So he created a one-dimensional character. Ok, he's now a combat monster and gets to handle all the combat stuff. Sort of like how the face handles most social interaction, and the hacker does the matrix stuff?

I don't really see the problem, except that a) he's going to be bored in most of the game, unless everything is combat or b) you think that the realistic security measures would be no contest for him, so combat challenges go out the window.

If the problem is that he's turning everything into a combat situation, I don't really see how that is possible. If some combat-armored cyberpsycho with an assault rifle starts killing left and right, he better make sure he dissappears fast - alarms will go out fast, and the security response isn't going to be light. Once there are helicopters, drones, spirits and astrally projecting mages tracking his escape, he is hosed. Even if he is the biggest, baddest combat monster, the SWAT mage is just going to play dirty and have a Spirit of Man with manabolt materialize behind him and he'll go down quickly, won't he?

Killing people isn't that hard, doing it without getting detected and/or getting away afterwards, that's the hard part.

[ClemulusRex]

Yeah, it's a game where you could say it's like Ronin or Escape from New York and be right either way.

Totally! As long as the bulk of the players are okay with it, sometimes you just have to roll with the madness. I once ran a 3rd Ed adventure where one of the players decided that his character was going to be Lo Kwan: Master of the Martial Arts! His real name was Simon McCaffrey and he had been living in a retirement home at the age of 70 when one day he wakes up with super powers and decides he's going to ''fight crime." Other than his fists, his signature weapons were "Kwanarangs", which I ruled as impact-detonated airfoil grenades, but the player liked to think of them as Nerf footballs with lit sticks of dynamite stuffed in them. Another hilarious detail was that after all of his Kung-Fu, Stealth, and Athletics skills were purchased, he had two skill points left over that he randomly threw into Pilot: Submarine as some half-remembered skill from his previous life as Simon McCaffery.

So, was this character suitable for a "serious" interpretation of the SR rules and world background? Hell, no! Was he fun to have in the game? Hell, YES! And luckily it worked for everybody else and the whole tone of the game shifted far over to the "Escape From New York" (with a hefty dose of "Big Trouble in Little China") end of the spectrum. The whole game flew off the rails right quick, but my was it a fun ride!

Point being, I agree that if your other players aren't actually bothered by the kill-o-bot's antics, then I see little problem. Otherwise, I stand by my previous assertion that talking to the player and working out some sort of compromise is in order.

[wind_in_the_ston...]

Kazuhiro, is it just you that has a problem with this character, or does he bug the rest of his team too? As a GM, you need to provide opportunities for players to play the characters they like, but there's only so far you can go. If the rest of the players are enjoying your missions, and this guy is making things difficult for them, you need to talk to him.

If you're the only one with a problem, you have three choices. (1) Make things appropriately difficult for him. When he waltzes through your security guards, step up the corporate response. And use notoriety and all that. Either he'll change, or his team will start to cover for his weaknesses. (2) Talk to him, and admit you're having trouble designing missions for him, since his abilities are so out-of-whack with the rest of the team. (3) Play things his way. He'll be bored sometimes, and the hero other times.

As for specific tips about how run a campaign with him in it... um...

Step up the post-mission threat. They'll be looking for this team. With a low casualty count, corporations are willing to ignore the shadowrunners. They're really after the people who hired them. Lots of killing directly affects their bottom line, if they can't provide for the safety of their personnel, so they'll decide it's worth going after the perpetrators.

Use more magical threat. Gunbunnies are just as vulnerable to spells as the average (non-mage) runner when the target attribute is willpower. Your mages will recognize this guy as the biggest threat, and target him first. You know the rule, geek the mage? The other rule is mage geeks the troll. And a force 6 or 7 spirit should present a challenge for him. Invulnerability to normal weapons FTW.

Um... that's all I got at the moment.

[Kagetenshi]

Lots of killing directly affects their bottom line, if they can't provide for the safety of their personnel, so they'll decide it's worth going after the perpetrators.

That's nonsensical. Revenge doesn't translate into profit, and whatever the team was actually hired to do will outweigh the impact of collateral damage by orders of magnitude (otherwise no one would be hiring a team of professional criminals to do it).

That's before we take into account that a fairly reliable way to make sure that a Shadowrunner is dead is to wait two months.

~J

[Eratosthenes]

That's nonsensical. Revenge doesn't translate into profit, and whatever the team was actually hired to do will outweigh the impact of collateral damage by orders of magnitude (otherwise no one would be hiring a team of professional criminals to do it).

That's before we take into account that a fairly reliable way to make sure that a Shadowrunner is dead is to wait two months.

~J

Revenge may not be profitable, but a high body count would mean the law enforcement agencies would be more likely investigate the crime, be it internal corpsec, or outside agencies like Knight Errant or Lonestar. If a company just suffered a high casaulty act of terrorism, they'd want to show the rest of their employees that they're doing something about it, to bolster morale and seem competent. Scared wageslaves hurt productivity.

Unless of course they can cover it all up, and deny anything happened, while writing off the losses. But high body count events tend to be difficult to cover up.

[Ascalaphus]

That's nonsensical. Revenge doesn't translate into profit,

To a point; establishing a reputation for your corporation as bastards you don't mess with, can pay off in the long run. It may scare off a lot of potential attackers. And let's face it; not all revenge missions are expensive.

[Kagetenshi]

But that reputation isn't enhanced by being selective based on body count; quite the opposite, in fact.

~J

[Whipstitch]

Yeah, Mitsuhama picked up that kinda rep by killing everyone, period.