Drake magicians/adepts/mystic adepts, Do the Magic points stack? Options

[Tanegar]

A drake starts with a Magic attribute of 1, per Runner's Companion, p. 76. A magician, adept, or mystic adept likewise starts with a Magic attribute of 1, per SR4A, pgs. 90 (Adept quality), 91 (Magician quality), and 92 (Mystic Adept quality). Are these points additive, i.e., if I make a drake mystic adept, does his Magic start at 1 or 2?

[Xahn Borealis]

While we're asking about drakes, can they SURGE? As in, take the Changeling Quality?

[Rasumichin]

While we're asking about drakes, can they SURGE? As in, take the Changeling Quality?

Yes, SURGE is available to all races in SR4.

Regarding OP's question, there's no clear ruling i can recall anywhere.

[Xahn Borealis]

Seems unlikely though.

[Rasumichin]

Seems unlikely though.

I'd say so, too.

BTW, one would also have to decide whether SURGE traits for drakes (and shifters) apply in both forms or just in one.
I don't have a clear ruling on this and would decide on a case-to-case basis with the player.

[Banaticus]

You choose your race, then qualities. Race (drake) gives 1 magic. Does the magician quality give an additional magic point or does it just set your magic at 1?

[Yerameyahu]

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. That said, try to slip it past you GM as an 'honest mistake'. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[LowBeyonder]

I don't think there's a clear RAW take on it, but if I were GMing, I'd say sure. Dracoform is hella expensive and starting mages/etc. are already strapped for BP; I don't think this is out of line or likely to cause any balance situations, and it's a decent theme perk.

I'd still restrict maximum Magic (pre-Initiation) to 6.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

When I had made a shapeshifter character, I had assume that you would have Magic 1 no matter what Awakened quality you chose. Just my 2 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif)

[HappyDaze]

If they both give you a 1, then you have a 1. Neither says 'increase/raise by 1' or anything similar. Both just give you the freaking 1 which is the minimum baseline for being awakened, and if you already have that by dipping in somewhere else, then you don't gain anything to Magic.

[Banaticus]

That is true, Brazilian_Shinob..., RC explicitly says that you have Magic 1 and can do some things with it, but can't summon spirits, etc., without the proper quality. We're discussing what happens when you do have that quality.

[Yerameyahu]

It's pretty clearly 'Magic = 1' by RAW. I might try and convince my GM to let me cheat on a Drake Adept, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[FlakJacket]

Well I could see an argument that if you're paying the build points for both qualities you should get the full benefits from both qualities. However with the latent dracomorphis quality it says you gain a magic attribute of 1 when you undergo dracomorphis or keep the magic attribute they already have if they're awakened, so I think that pretty much rules out the idea of double stacking them for a starting magic attribute of 2. In the end it just comes down to what you can talk your GM into. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Yerameyahu]

Edit: Bleh, nevermind. I'd read the answer to my question, then forgotten it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

I had another question, though: Mystic Armor 4 + Hardened Armor 4 = 4/4 physical, 8/8 astral, with the first 4 as 'hardened'? Seems like an awfully soft target without an Armor spell or Adept Power.

[LurkerOutThere]

By the rules your magic rating is one, as a kind GM I would not find a starting magic of 2 out of line for the amounts of points expended.

[darthmord]

By the rules your magic rating is one, as a kind GM I would not find a starting magic of 2 out of line for the amounts of points expended.

This is how I would rule it myself. Both qualities comes with a Magic 1. Seems rather unfair to penalize someone who has both qualities by only allowing Magic 1 while paying full price for both qualities.

[Draco18s]

I had another question, though: Mystic Armor 4 + Hardened Armor 4 = 4/4 physical, 8/8 astral, with the first 4 as 'hardened'? Seems like an awfully soft target without an Armor spell or Adept Power.

Mystic Armor Critter Power is not the Mystic Armor Adept Power.

The Mystic Armor critter power only grants you armor on the astral plane. Hardened armor makes it hardened astral armor.

And yes, 4/4 armor is not very much. This is why my current drake character does not have armor.

Sounds like a contradiction, yes? But see, I want to be in drake form as much as possible so having 4/4 armor more than human form is a bonus.

This is how I would rule it myself. Both qualities comes with a Magic 1. Seems rather unfair to penalize someone who has both qualities by only allowing Magic 1 while paying full price for both qualities.

Your "saving" 10 BP. That's it. Admittedly if you're playing a drake 10 BP goes a long freaking way, but in the grand scheme of things, its still 10 BP, its 2.5% of your total build.

[Levithix]

Of course, taking mage/adept/mistic adept with drake does give the advantage of increasing magic for both.
Would a drake without one of them be any good?
On a related note; I'm making a troll drake prime runner with 600 bp and a small amount of karma (about 50)
Any advice on adept powers?

[Yerameyahu]

I know that the Mystic Armors aren't the same, which is why I said 8/8 Astral, not Physical. Does Hardened Armor not actually give armor, though, just hardens what's already there? It ambiguously worded.

[Neraph]

I know that the Mystic Armors aren't the same, which is why I said 8/8 Astral, not Physical. Does Hardened Armor not actually give armor, though, just hardens what's already there? It ambiguously worded.

Hardened armor is armor in and of itself, on the Physical plane, which is why it's a Physical Power. Physical Powers do not function at all on the Astral. Therefore, you do not gain your Hardened Armor on the Astral plane.

[Draco18s]

Hardened armor is armor in and of itself, on the Physical plane, which is why it's a Physical Power. Physical Powers do not function at all on the Astral. Therefore, you do not gain your Hardened Armor on the Astral plane.

Actually you do, in a way. If you have Hardened Armor (critter power) any astral armor you already have "becomes hardened." So you get a hardened 4/4 in the physical and astral.

[Yerameyahu]

Make up your minds, guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The book says that if you have astral armor, Hardened Armor hardens it. Does that mean it's 4/4 (Hardened) Astral?

Anyway, why did they bother? A drake can't wear armor, so they're running around with 4/4 Hardened… I guess it keeps them from stubbing their dragon toes, but nothing else. I'll have to invest in the Adept Mystic Armor.

[Draco18s]

Make up your minds, guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) The book says that if you have astral armor, Hardened Armor hardens it. Does that mean it's 4/4 (Hardened) Astral?

Correct, its 4/4 Hardened Astral Armor, not 8/8 Hardened Astral Armor.

I know that the Mystic Armors aren't the same, which is why I said 8/8 Astral, not Physical.

Anyway, why did they bother? A drake can't wear armor, so they're running around with 4/4 Hardened… I guess it keeps them from stubbing their dragon toes, but nothing else. I'll have to invest in the Adept Mystic Armor.

Pretty much. You can take punches from unaugmented, mundane metahumans.* But any unaugmented mundane would be a moron to engage in melee with a dragon (even a small one).

*4 damage tops, ignored outright. -1 net hit leaves 3, which is achieved by strength 6. Without a melee weapon, that's the best a human could ever achieve, and is around average for orcs and trolls, IIRC.

[Neraph]

Correct, its 4/4 Hardened Astral Armor, not 8/8 Hardened Astral Armor.

That's what I was meaning.

[Yerameyahu]

I guess that explains why they're rare: anyone with a gun means drake stew. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)