Hacking to Kill..., Family fun with virtual space Options

[Nyost Akasuke]

=)



Now that that's outta the way. I'm playing around with the character concept of a combat hacker. From my understanding, when most people think of combat hacker, they think of a hacker who has enough physical ability and skill to contribute to and/or survive a firefight. While this character should certainly be able to accomplish such, I'm more interested in the applications of hacking towards a combat scenario. The common example of hacking a cyberlimb to interfere and/or redirect attacks comes to mind as an example. So, what I'm looking for is other ideas or scenarios where hacking would be useful or taking out opponents, or otherwise aiding the runner team in a combat situation. Really, I'm trying to gauge whether there's enough reason and uses for this concept to be worth making.

- Is this concept practical from chargen? What attributes, skills, and equipment would aid the concept? Can the build be sturdy enough at the game's start to be able to accomplish the general idea without ridiculously large dice pools, and function in a way that's beneficial to the group as a whole? Can it be done without sacrificing any core hacking skills (which I doubt)?

- What race/''class'' combinations would be ideal? Would a Hacker have an easier time accomplishing this than a 'Mancer would? My information on Technomancers is lacking, as it's been a while since I've read Unwired, but the Mesh Reality echo comes to mind as something potentially useful

- In what ways can hacking be utilized to injure or kill enemy opponents? (Such as the whole cyberarm deal)

- In what ways can hacking be utilized to grant an extra advantage to the runner team during combat? (Such as hacking enemy TacNets or taking control of a security system)

- In what ways can hacking debilitate or render useless enemy combatants? (Such as hacking smartlinks to provide false information, or do that biofeedback sensory overload thing I simply can't seem to remember what to call)

I'm in need of ideas. If any of you have been through a similar situation, or have other information that could contribute to the idea, I'd greatly appreciate it. If for some reason this isn't very practical, and you have reasons for saying that, that would be a big help as well. =) As well, if this subject has been covered already, a link would be wonderful and I can skip off to reading rainbow and leave you all to your devices.

Gracias.

[Banaticus]

Most security guards should have wireless access points in cyberware turned off (especially if they're any good). You can easily turn it back on for the 3-month checkup or after its been damaged. http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=30819

You could turn off the lights, activate the fire suppression system. Retreat and hack doors to lock? The things you've suggested sound good (although again most cyberware should have its wireless access points turned off if the guards are any good).

[Boscrossos]

Use the environment. Cars are driven electronically, and have wireless on (if only to connect to gridguide). Crash one on top of your enemies, odds are it'll hurt.

[darthmord]

Work with the mage... make the water sprinklers in the fire suppression system kick off over top of the opposition right before the mage casts a lightning bolt/ball spell on them...

Creative use of the environment will make even the wimpiest of characters exceedingly lethal.

Psst... did you notice the bad guys guarding the inside of the server room and the HALON fire suppression system in there? Hehehe...

[Draco18s]

Hacking cyber (no guard or shadowrunner in their right mind would leave the wireless on, or even have a wireless antenna for this exact reason)
Hacking cars (might as well steal them, see the "stealing cars is more profitable" problem)
Hacking smartlink (assumes that the gun is hackable when the cyberarm holding is not, see first line)
Hacking comlinks and flooding the target with distracting noise/visuals (tops 1 simple action stolen from the target--turn off the comlink/earbuds/display glasses--for a cost of 2 or more complex actions: at least 1 to hack past the firewall, and at least 1 to command the device)
Hacking comlink and forcing the user into VR where you can hit them with Black IC (requires that the target be capable of VR and various other issues, such as spending more complex actions than the target spends disengaging)
Hacking drones (easier to use your own or just destroy it: drones are not that durable)

Long story short: anything that you could do to be a "combat hacker" is less effective than picking up a mother f*cking gun.

Compare: assume any of the above takes EXACTLY 3 complex actions: 2 to hack, 1 to command and that you have 3 IPs in VR space and 1 meat.

You can:
Turn off a guy's arm/leg (or shot him for 8P* six times)
Turn a guy over with a car (+1 Complex action for the vehicle to reach the target) (or shot him for 8P eight times)
Give the target a -2 to shooting you because he lost his smartlink bonus (or shoot him for 8P six times)
Distract the target (-2 to all actions for 1 IP) (or shoot him six times)
Spend 3 IPs forcing him into VR and then beating him up with black IC (or shoot him for 8P six plus number of rounds hit with black IC times)
Gaining control of a drone (or shooting it for 8P six times)

I don't know about you, but shooting for 8P six times seems...oddly better in every scenario I can think of.

*5P heavy pistol +3 net hits, 6P rifle +2 net his, 5P gun +1 explosive +2 net hits, 5P +2 ex-ex + 1 net hit....

[SpellBinder]

Creative use of the hacking examples can be better. Especially if you're trying not to kill everyone in sight (in a chase an they have more than one vehicle? hack one to crash it into another of their own vehicles).

But it all depends on the situation. There certainly will be times that shooting your enemy many times for 8P each will be better than hacking something for a distraction.

[Draco18s]

Creative use of the hacking examples can be better. Especially if you're trying not to kill everyone in sight (in a chase an they have more than one vehicle? hack one to crash it into another of their own vehicles).

But it all depends on the situation. There certainly will be times that shooting your enemy many times for 8P each will be better than hacking something for a distraction.

There's nothing wrong with creative uses for hacking, but because they are entirely situational they are almost always less effective than using a gun.

The problem is that players try to use creative hacking to kill people and that's not what hacking is for.

[RunnerPaul]

Gaining control of a drone (or shooting it for 8P six times)

I don't know about you, but shooting for 8P six times seems...oddly better in every scenario I can think of.

Except maybe this last one, because hey, free drone. Why spend your own nuyen on gear?

[Yerameyahu]

It really doesn't matter if it's better than a gun. Hacking is the do-everything in 2070. It's cool, fun, flexible. Enjoy, 'nuff said.

[Draco18s]

Except maybe this last one, because hey, free drone. Why spend your own nuyen on gear?

That one is likely the only one where hacking is actually the better option, and really, it should be that way.

[ZeroPoint]

Another important difference between combat hacking vs. shooting them in the face is that the first doesn't necessarily make them aware of you yet.

You can hack a group of guards' comlinks and set up a script that fills their audio/video input with lots of noise/static, trigger them all at the same moment, THEN shoot them all in the face.

And also, since most of the time your gonna have your smartlink/smartgun combo slaved to your com, as soon as you get their com, you get the smartlink/gun. Eject their clips, activate advanced safety or anti-theft systems.

And remember, you don't necessarily have to do this DURING combat. set it up before it starts...assuming you can begin the engagement on your terms. Imagine the reactions of a patrol of guards when you hack all their smartgun systems and have all their sidearms empty their clips while still in their holsters.

[Draco18s]

And remember, you don't necessarily have to do this DURING combat. set it up before it starts...assuming you can begin the engagement on your terms. Imagine the reactions of a patrol of guards when you hack all their smartgun systems and have all their sidearms empty their clips while still in their holsters.

See OP:

So, what I'm looking for is other ideas or scenarios where hacking would be useful or taking out opponents, or otherwise aiding the runner team in a combat situation.

[ZeroPoint]

An ambush is still a combat situation.

[Eratosthenes]

One thing of note is that wireless signals ignore cover. So if you're engaged in a firefight in, say, a warehouse, where opponents are hidden or not visible, or otherwise behind significant cover, the hacker should still be able to find/access their commlinks (though it may be difficult, depending on their sniffer abilities).

Once hacked, that hacker should be able to relay the opponents locations to friends for indirect fire, ambushes, flanks, etc., as well as A/V distractions, false information, disabling of weaponry, misfires, etc.

Thinking of misfires, could a hacker trigger an airburst linked grenade launcher to fire at 0 range, disabling any safeties?

[Nyost Akasuke]

Thanks everyone. =)

Turning off the lights might be a good idea, especially if the runner team has some sort of vision modification or enhancement through cyber eyes or glasses or something. Then again, how common is it for security guards to possess things like, say, thermographic vision? Activating the fire suppression system is a good one I didn't see coming.

Taking control of a vehicle during pursuit or something would be handy, 'course, so long as I'm not trying to multitask driving and hacking. Synergistic use of hacking with other members of the team (water sprinklers + mage), to give an advantage, is definitely something I'd like to do with this character concept.

Draco18s has a good point. There are a lot of situations where firing the gun would be better, especially if any sort of stealth or ''low-keyness'' is compromised or not needed. Of course, this character isn't just some guy with commlinks on him like bling who hacks everything, he's gonna be built to fire a gun (or two) should the situation arise. I'm not planning on having a guy who can walk down the hall, make cybered security guards shoot themselves in the faces while the hacked security system murders everyone in the building, with said guy carrying nothing but a commlink. Isn't that what mind mages are for? =P

A combination of what ZeroPoint and Erastosthenes said gave me the idea in the first place. In a situation where enemy combatants have a technological edge over you (in terms of equipment, or just more men to use that equipment), in which my ''combat hacker'' may not have the best physical attributes and skill levels to be able to hold his ground in a firefight. Since he's a hacker, he would hack stuff to turn the tide in his (and his team's) favor. Ejecting clips was a neat idea I should've included, but can a hacker really make a gun misfire? I assume, maybe, if it was all electronic but....

That would suck to be holding a gun with some explosive rounds, only to have an enemy hacker insult you by blowing you fingers to bits when you pull the trigger.

[ZeroPoint]

well, you probably couldn't cause a gun to missfire unless safety controls on the system were connected to the smartgun system. Most likely they would be an electronicly closed system in relation to the "smart" system. so Hacking the smartgun couldn't allow you to send the fire command at a lower voltage than is needed to fire caseless electronic firing weapons, leading to missfires. but as to the airburst, you should be able to override that system since it is tied to the smartgun system. would probably take more than a few rounds though. I'm away from my books right now so I'm not sure what the existing test is to modify that.

[Possession Mage]

My understanding of cyberware is that it NEEDS a commlink (or some kind of computer) to process it. By default, they DO broadcast (signal 0). Players can choose to get rid of this but would need a commlink in their head with absolutely no signal (not even 0!) to represent a wired link so the limb is non hackable. If there was even a signal 0, and the runner had another commlink (you need to have one running to stay in contact with your team, even if in hidden, +4 threshold to spot I beleive) they could daisy chain through that to hack said limb.

Having played a hacker a lot, I see the negative effect on the team when I run a game. There are very few missions where a hacker will not be useful, and creative use of them is half the fun of the game for me. Not only can you open and shut the doors, take over automated defences and get pay data while sitting 3km away in your chameleon coated van but you can use your own drones for combat when the needs arise. Stealth(spydrones), combat(large combat drone....flying drones....), get-away(who doesn't take a good pilot skill when rigging!) and wetwork(exploding pigeon anyone?). Surely one of the most versatile and fun builds in the SR world!

Oh...and have you seen how easy it is to hack vehicles/commlinks? Even with good security it's not usually too hard.

[Smokeskin]

but as to the airburst, you should be able to override that system since it is tied to the smartgun system. would probably take more than a few rounds though. I'm away from my books right now so I'm not sure what the existing test is to modify that.

I'd think even an electronic airburst grenade would still contain a mechanical safety that simply won't allow detonation before the grenade has travelled a set distance, like they do today.

[LurkerOutThere]

My understanding of cyberware is that it NEEDS a commlink (or some kind of computer) to process it. By default, they DO broadcast (signal 0). Players can choose to get rid of this but would need a commlink in their head with absolutely no signal (not even 0!) to represent a wired link so the limb is non hackable. If there was even a signal 0, and the runner had another commlink (you need to have one running to stay in contact with your team, even if in hidden, +4 threshold to spot I beleive) they could daisy chain through that to hack said limb.

Your understanding is flawed not supported by the rules or the previous editions cyberware worked just fine prior to the wireless matrix I can see no reason for it to stop working and require an outside connection just because hacker's are along for the ride.

[RunnerPaul]

My understanding of cyberware is that it NEEDS a commlink (or some kind of computer) to process it.

The game went for three editions without such a requirement, and no such requirement is explicitly stated in the fourth edition rules. What the rules do say (SR4A, p.338), is that "most cyberware devices are equipped with a direct neural interface (DNI) that allows the user to mentally activate and control their functions," in other words the circuitry that lets your body control your cybereyes or cyberarms or what have you, and receive sensory data back from them is built right in -- any wireless functionality is additional on top of that, and not required for normal operation. This is further supported by text in Augmentation (p.28) that states that security-minded cyber users typically only turn on wireless functionality in controlled settings, and text in Unwired (p.102) that states that some "external" implants such as cyberlimbs offer up dedicated maintenance jacks in lieu of a wireless connection.

[Possession Mage]

Quoted from page 102 of unwired:

"The Signal rating of internal implants tends to be low (usually 0), meaning that a hacker needs to be in close range. Such implants are often slaved to the character’s commlink, however, so a hacker who infiltrates the master node can access slaved implants (see Slaving, p. 55)."

On checking the SR4 book, yes, I agree with runner paul, this does seem to contradict, but as unwired came later (tho not later than A) I assumed it was "overwriting".

Edit: Page 31 of augmentation additional explains the wireless nature of the DNI.

This post has been edited by Possession Mage: May 21 2010, 12:40 PM

[Eratosthenes]

For most cybernetics, the wireless is there solely for diagnostics, not actual control. Why would a cyberarm need outside control, when it has a DNI? That said, the wireless capabilities could be used to, say, shut the limb down for diagnostics tests (or otherwise disable it). But I wouldn't go so far as to see a hacker being able to use the cyberlimb to strangle the owner.

For Cybereyes/Ears/etc., I could see the cyberware having wireless so as to transmit the data they take in (as if they were a sensor) to something else, but control should still be via DNI.

With regards to hacking a gun to misfire, if it's modded with electronic firing and a smartgun system, I see no reason not to allow it to be fired remotely, or by a hacker.

[Draco18s]

"The Signal rating of internal implants tends to be low (usually 0), meaning that a hacker needs to be in close range. Such implants are often slaved to the character’s commlink, however, so a hacker who infiltrates the master node can access slaved implants (see Slaving, p. 55)."

Which, TBH, is stupid. If it hadn't been slaved it would have a signal range of 3m. By slaving it, it gains the signal range of the comlink.
(Except that the comlink would act as a universal router for the limb anyway because the wireless matrix is retarded)

[Possession Mage]

Yes, I would agree with that, but the ominous example given in unwired is...

"Seizing control of a cyberarm and using it to attack others, or even the cyberlimbed character."

[Possession Mage]

Which, TBH, is stupid. If it hadn't been slaved it would have a signal range of 3m. By slaving it, it gains the signal range of the comlink.
(Except that the comlink would act as a universal router for the limb anyway because the wireless matrix is retarded)

Entirely, it does suggest that most cyberarms shouldn't be hacked on re-checking, but also gives it as an example of what to hack. Common sense, I think, should win the day in this situation. I wouldn't allow someone to hack a cyberarm, I would assume it needed no software update (it's not like you need to update the software so it's able to make new movements!) and so could not be hacked. Some GM's would allow it though, so if you plan to use it, consult your GM on how it works in his world!