New Spell, Soulblade? Options

[TBRMInsanity]

I have to go over Street Magic again but I know in the SR3 rules that I created a "Holy Sword" spell for a Christian Mage once. I just created a manipulation spell with the Metal elemental effect and the sword was maintained as long as you concentrated on it (ie sustained spell). I could have make the spell permanent but that would have defeated the two main advantages of the spell, first it could be cast in one round as permanent spells take time to "brew", secondly to have access to a weapon in areas where you normally can't have a weapon (it doesn't make sense to create a permanent sword and then have to sneak it through a security check point).

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Is there a rule that says combat spells cant be sustained?

Yes, Street Magic, page 162, under the Combat Spells heading:

"Combat spells are always Instant in duration; they may not be sustained or permanent."

Keep the Faith

[TBRMInsanity]

Looking through the Street Magic Spell Creation rules you could do the following:

Create Sword (Manipulation):
(F/2)+1 Drain, Sustained
This spell transmutes a small metal item in the casters hand into a fully functioning sword. This spell can only be used on a coin sized metal object and the object remains a sword as long as the caster maintains concentration on the object. The sword has the following stats (Reach 1, Damage (Str/2)+3 P).

Metal Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+2 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Metal blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F + 2 (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with Impact armour and gets a +2 AP bonus to resist this spell.

Light Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+2 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Brilliant blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with 1/2 Impact armour (round up). Treat the attack as a Light attack (Flare effect and can light highly flammable materials).

Soul Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+4 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Brilliant Metal blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F + 2 (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with 1/2 Impact armour (round up) and gets a +2 AP bonus to resist this spell. Treat the attack as a Light attack (Flare effect and can light highly flammable materials). This Brilliant Blade leaves an afterglow from the casters hands giving the effect that the caster wields an ethereal blade.

[Lansdren]

Looking through the Street Magic Spell Creation rules you could do the following:

Create Sword (Manipulation):
(F/2)+1 Drain, Sustained
This spell transmutes a small metal item in the casters hand into a fully functioning sword. This spell can only be used on a coin sized metal object and the object remains a sword as long as the caster maintains concentration on the object. The sword has the following stats (Reach 1, Damage (Str/2)+3 P).

Metal Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+2 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Metal blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F + 2 (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with Impact armour and gets a +2 AP bonus to resist this spell.

Light Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+2 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Brilliant blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with 1/2 Impact armour (round up). Treat the attack as a Light attack (Flare effect and can light highly flammable materials).

Soul Sword (Combat):
(F/2)+4 Drain, Instant, LOS* (Restricted to 1m (ie the length of a sword))
This spell creates a Brilliant Metal blade that strikes forth from the caster's hands into an unexpected enemy dealing F + 2 (+successes) DV damage. The target does get to resist with 1/2 Impact armour (round up) and gets a +2 AP bonus to resist this spell. Treat the attack as a Light attack (Flare effect and can light highly flammable materials). This Brilliant Blade leaves an afterglow from the casters hands giving the effect that the caster wields an ethereal blade.

Now as some people will testify I dont think mages are particually over powered but those options are very light on drain for what is effectivly a weapon that you can use even in a high security area because your saying you can use any small metal item for it. There is no downside. Basic elemental effects get a +3 code what you have there would warrent even higher drain.

[TBRMInsanity]

Now as some people will testify I dont think mages are particually over powered but those options are very light on drain for what is effectivly a weapon that you can use even in a high security area because your saying you can use any small metal item for it. There is no downside. Basic elemental effects get a +3 code what you have there would warrent even higher drain.

I was using the original Street Magic not the Errata'd one so you should increase the Drain for the Combat spells by +1. The Manipulation spell doesn't have an elemental effect as it states in the rules that to add an elemental effect the spell must do physical damage. I instead choose to have a Very Restrictive Target (ie Metal Coin) and cause a Major Physical Manipulation (ie turning it into a sword). The rules state (again un Errata'd) you can't create something from nothing so that is why I chose a Metal Coin.

[Mäx]

I was using the original Street Magic not the Errata'd one so you should increase the Drain for the Combat spells by +1. The Manipulation spell doesn't have an elemental effect as it states in the rules that to add an elemental effect the spell must do physical damage. I instead choose to have a Very Restrictive Target (ie Metal Coin) and cause a Major Physical Manipulation (ie turning it into a sword). The rules state (again un Errata'd) you can't create something from nothing so that is why I chose a Metal Coin.

If you make a full-sized sword from a small coin, your still creating somethink from nothink as that sword has a whole lot mere metall then the coin.

[Stahlseele]

Also, with Memory Metals and your Belt doubling as your sword, why would you do that?

[Daddy's Litt...]

For a name, what about 'bob'? I like 'Bob.' Even better is Phred

yet SM says even a hammer is too complex

Was SM based on Kubrician technolongy levels then?

[Stahlseele]

Well, a good hammer consists of at least 3 different parts.
The handle, the head and the splint. Maybe something around the handle for a better grip too.
But stuff made from one part only should be simple enough . .

[TBRMInsanity]

If you make a full-sized sword from a small coin, your still creating somethink from nothink as that sword has a whole lot mere metall then the coin.

I was pointing out that you can't say create a sword from the air in a room. But now that I think of it there isn't any restriction in the rules per say. I am aware that there is not nearly enough matter in a coin to create a sword (let alone the hilt, grip, etc) but that isn't the point. The point is you are doing a major manipulation to the molecules in a coin to temporary change its shape, the number of atoms, the structure, etc so that it is no longer a coin but a sword. I don't have to fully justify in real physics how the magic does it, because frankly it is magic! I just judged from a game mechanic POV that it was a major manipulation and since I want the manipulation to occur in one combat round, I make the manipulation spell a sustained one.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If you make a full-sized sword from a small coin, your still creating somethink from nothink as that sword has a whole lot mere metall then the coin.

At which point, following that logic, Mist no longer works, nor does Shapechange, Dritter Form, or any number of Manipulation Spells...

I say that those spells are within both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law, as many of the Manipulation Spells are constructed this way...

Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith

[Daddy's Litt...]

Well, a good hammer consists of at least 3 different parts.
The handle, the head and the splint. Maybe something around the handle for a better grip too.
But stuff made from one part only should be simple enough . .

Or just one good bone.

[TBRMInsanity]

I understand the rational of trying to reason out how a spell works, but the laws of magic are not the same as the laws of nature. As such laws such as the conservation of mass, the transformation of objects (like if you did turn lead into gold it would be highly radioactive and very unstable), and conservation of energy don't always apply. It is more the conservation of the mental mind and its ability to believe that a coin can turn into a sword that matters with magic. It's hand wavium, but as long you don't break the game mechanics, the only restriction is your creativity.

This be a warning to GMs out there though, monitor custom spells so that munchkin players don't take advantage of the system. We don't want a turn Coin into Nuke spell.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I understand the rational of trying to reason out how a spell works, but the laws of magic are not the same as the laws of nature. As such laws such as the conservation of mass, the transformation of objects (like if you did turn lead into gold it would be highly radioactive and very unstable), and conservation of energy don't always apply. It is more the conservation of the mental mind and its ability to believe that a coin can turn into a sword that matters with magic. It's hand wavium, but as long you don't break the game mechanics, the only restriction is your creativity.

This be a warning to GMs out there though, monitor custom spells so that munchkin players don't take advantage of the system. We don't want a turn Coin into Nuke spell.

Indeed... which was kind of my point above...

Keep the Faith

[Banaticus]

Is there a rule that says combat spells cant be sustained?

Yes, Street Magic, page 162, under the Combat Spells heading:
"Combat spells are always Instant in duration; they may not be sustained or permanent."

Yes, but there's also a part that says that all sorts of corporations have researched this and nobody has figured out how to summon up a sword in your hand without a weapon focus, which (in my mind) seems that this spell should be as difficult as teleportation (since as many people have tried to do that as well). However, we're just ignoring that part.

I think what I set out on the first page is fairly reasonable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yes, but there's also a part that says that all sorts of corporations have researched this and nobody has figured out how to summon up a sword in your hand without a weapon focus, which (in my mind) seems that this spell should be as difficult as teleportation (since as many people have tried to do that as well). However, we're just ignoring that part.

I think what I set out on the first page is fairly reasonable. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

But a re-flavored Elemental Aura is just fluff at that point, it is not a real sword at all... it is exactly the same spell it was before, with the difference of possible alternate elemental effects, and visual fluff... so it doesn't change anything...

Just Sayin'

Keep the Faith

[General Pax]

Why are you guys saying to make a real sword with mgaic? I dont understand that need. It doesnt have to be metal. It could be more like a lightsaber or something, and I remember a spell just like that in 3rd edition.

[Stahlseele]

Because Magic can do everything(better) <.<

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because Magic can do everything(better) <.<

Heheheh...

Keep the Faith

[Snow_Fox]

Magic isn't necessarily better, it just is. it's a tool to be used for good or evil depending on the user, the way a crow bar could be used to pry someone out of a wreck or beat their brains out.