Cyberbody and Synaptic Boosters? Options

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Yeah, that's BS, and if you bothered to actually READ the mod, instead of spouting the party line and complaining about being unable to find pricing/availability, you'd know better. The first paragraph does indeed tell you that its basically a Rigger Adaptation Plus - and the second tells you what the CCU does, when you pay for it, at the cost listed. Yeah. The second paragraph - what the CCU does - doesn't magically dissappear, just because you insist that all the mod does is what you say it does

I did read the Mod... word for word... and it DOES NOT COME WITH THE VEHICLE (See your Steps to consider below, even you agree with that)... it is a cyber modification that is applied to a person (Vehicles can't have Essence afterall)... BOTH are required to have a functional Jarhead Drone... However, the CCU will still function, even If you do not have a Drone Body... and a CYBORG ADAPTED DRONE can function without the CCU... THE CCU has a function within the vcehicle, and that is what the second sentence tells you... BUT, you still need to reference the Augmentation Book to determine exactly all of the abilities... ARSENAL DOES NOT MODIFY AUGMENTATION in any way, they are both completely different rules for different aspects of Shadowrun...

You will also note the order of printing. Augmentation came first(July 07), then Arsenal(Jan 08). Therefore, the arsenal rules are newer, and take precedence - but they also tell you to look at the other book for what you can do with your CCU. And, you know, the devs going 'whoopsie. We made all these great rules for cyborgs, but forgot to tell them how to get one. Oh! I know! Lets shoehorn it into arsenal!'

Order of Printing is Irrelevant, as they are about different sections of the game... Your spouting otherwise does not change that... and I did not need to be told how to create a Jarhead (I had the rules for a CCU already afterall).. I was using them prior to Arsenal... not all that hard to do actually... have a drone, put a CCU in it... the only thing missing is the cost difference between a Rigger Adaptation and a Cyborg Adaptation... who cared... all you need is a Drone and a CCU (and post Arsenal, a Cyborg Adaptation)...

Now think about the steps involved.

1)You configure a drone to operate with a cyborg interface with the Modificat. You may acquire a CCU at the same time, because it has a price listed right there.
1a) If you already have a CCU, and just want to set up another body to use it with, you just apply the basic mod, without the CCU. If you do not want another CCU, you are not forced to pay for it.
Once you actually have a CCU, then you move onto Augmentation to deal with putting a brain inside it.(delta clinic, essense loss, sanity checks, et cetera).
2)Once you have all of those steps complete - a configured body, a ccu to plug in, a brain inside it - then you have a functional jarhead. Easy-peasy, rules are compatable, no harm done.

Indeed...
A CCU is constructed using the rules in Augmentation... and the rules are there... Note that there is nothing in the rules for having a CCU come with a Vehicle... also note in Arsenal, that you NEED a CCU to have a Cyborg adapted drone. Arsenal tells you that it is necessary, and is NOT part of the vehicle... but it is still a "Person" who has had their brain stripped and placed into a CCU... which is seperate... and is a Delta Grade Oeration...

Therefore, A CCU is very obviously independant of the Vehicle it is used in, AS SUCH... you have no availability for the Device, but know that it requires a Delta Clinic, and a willing (or not so willing) individual, to create... at that point... you now have an availability... Delta Clinic = Availability 24... As such, not available at character for 2 reasons...

1. Availability is too high, even for restricted gear
2. Delta Grade Mods are not available at character creation...

At that point, you fail to acquire them until after Character creation has completed and the game has begun... Unless, of course, the GM says otherwise...

You really should look into the rules a bit more before you start heavily offensive posts...

Though in the end, It looks like we are talking the same language, as you appear to agree that the CCU is seperate from the Drone...

Keep the Faith

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

yes. that, exactly. Thank you.
Its also worth noting that augmentation's CCU procedure sets a subject's Essence to 0.1 from whatever it was before, but mentions you can keep cultured bioware at the GM's discretion. Honestly, you ought to be able to keep some other Headware, too, like a math SPU.

But only things that take capacity, and not essence...

Keep the Faith

[Jaid]

All this yelling about nothing. It clearly lists Cyborg Adaptation as 15,000¥, and *mentions* that the CCU is 250,000¥. Which is what you're *both* saying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) No one's saying you get something for nothing… and you still need 267,500¥ *plus* all hospital fees, *plus* mechanical/biological/psychological maintenance (= significant lifestyle cost). So, much more than 267,500¥, and that's just for the most basic body.

I had a question, though: in that 12 Cap, what can you put? Bodyware, headware? I assume no eye or ear. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) What makes sense for a brainjar?

yes. that, exactly. Thank you.


The funniest thing I've come up with is Cyberfins, an Internal Air Tank, and an Ultrasound sensor - brainjar submarine. On a more serious note, nanohives and datajacks are great. Probably a smartlink in there, just cause.

Its also worth noting that augmentation's CCU procedure sets a subject's Essence to 0.1 from whatever it was before, but mentions you can keep cultured bioware at the GM's discretion. Honestly, you ought to be able to keep some other Headware, too, like a math SPU.

which just leads me back to my point then. if the cost is ~190k nuyen for the cyberware that the CCU offers, and it reduces your essence to 0.1, then you are much much better off just getting that cyberware separately (and skipping the damage compensators, or at most getting a different piece of 'ware that does the same job only better) and having actual essence to play with. considerably more than 12 points of capacity is likely to get you, for that matter.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

which just leads me back to my point then. if the cost is ~190k nuyen for the cyberware that the CCU offers, and it reduces your essence to 0.1, then you are much much better off just getting that cyberware separately (and skipping the damage compensators, or at most getting a different piece of 'ware that does the same job only better) and having actual essence to play with. considerably more than 12 points of capacity is likely to get you, for that matter.

And it is very hard to argue that point...

I have always seen the Jarhead as a poor schmuck that had no real choice in the matter (ala Robocop) or the purpose built clonal Jarhead for corporate study/use...

It is not something that a character should ever truly aspire too in my opinion...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Not to belabor the point, but no one said vehicles that include Cyborg Adaptation include the CCU. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Anyway.

Cyborgs, like cyberzombies, are a neat enemy that no character will probably ever be, as are weird critters, dragons, basically anyone with deltaware, and basically *all* of the military stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Nothing wrong with that.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Not to belabor the point, but no one said vehicles that include Cyborg Adaptation include the CCU. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Anyway.

Not sure if you are directing this at me... BUT, Udoshi said that very thing in post #39 when he claimed that it was an integral part of the Cyborg Adaptation Vehicle Modification...

Cyborgs, like cyberzombies, are a neat enemy that no character will probably ever be, as are weird critters, dragons, basically anyone with deltaware, and basically *all* of the military stuff. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with that at all... They can make a great antagonist... not so much for a protagonist though...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

He said it was 250,000¥ more. It was very clear, especially in context of the next posts.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

He said it was 250,000¥ more. It was very clear, especially in context of the next posts.

Actually, no, he is very plainly indicating that the CCU is part of the vehicle modifiction (and even uses another example of a weapon coming with a Smartlink mod included to further attempt to make his point), as you can see below... He did not change that until I called him on it... and his last line indicates his complete misunderstanding, as the CCU is DELTAWARE (contrary to what he is saying) and that the Cyborg Adaptation is a Vehicle Mod...

You don't -quite- have it straight. The CCU's cost is part of the Cyborg Adaptation mod - just 250k more. Seriously, go check the table in arsenal(though this may be a Second Printing/Errata thing). Just think of it like buying a gun, that happens to have a Smartlinked version available for +cash.(like the praetor)

A really, really expensive tack-on cost.

As you said, its a vehicle mod, not deltaware.

[Falanin]

the cyborg only looks like a good deal when you compare it to trying to cram in a full cyber body with the added 'ware of the CCU. if you actually compare the benefits of the CCU to the benefits of just being a rigger to begin with, the CCU looks like an overpriced piece of junk that does nothing more than make you fit int a handful of specially designed bodies that you could just as plausibly fit into (with some modifications, i suppose, but you'd be taking stuff out not adding, so it shouldn't take up slots) if you were an exceptionally small metahuman (such as a gnome) with your arms and legs chopped off for no apparent reason.

I suddenly have the urge to build a pixie rigger that "walks" around in a modded Otomo...

[Yerameyahu]

Um? The point is that it's 250,000¥ more, not 'included'.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Um? The point is that it's 250,000¥ more, not 'included'.

I concur... But Udoshi plainly said (at least initially) that it was a Vehicle Modification (Not Deltaware) which is completely and totally wrong...

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Ah. I was wondering what you were talking about, okay.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Ah. I was wondering what you were talking about, okay.

Hey, No Worries...
It's all good...

Keep the Faith

[Sengir]

last i checked, they were actually a remarkably *bad* deal, with the only thing you gain being that you're really small.

with the drawbacks that you're likely in short order to become nuttier than a fruitcake, you are arbitrarily limited in your skills, you can't get any more cyberware (note: the cyber that does the equivalent of what the CCU does is cheaper and would leave you with essence to play with assuming you use *standard grade* never mind delta ware). oh, and you need a constant supply of a hard-to-get chemical cocktail (which, i might add, is a major part of the reason you're going to become nuttier than a fruitcake to begin with) and regular psychiatric examinations.

really, if you were to just play a character who's arms and legs got chopped off and never replaced, and install a bunch of 'ware, you'd probably have a much better deal in terms of BP, and in terms of essence available for future use.

That's also the major problem I have with cyborgs: The folks at MCT somehow though "well, it would be too easy to just remove the limbs and some unneccessary organs from a rigger who already spends most of his lifetime jumped in, let's go completely over the top instead". So they set out to capture children (because adult brains cannot adapt to something a rigger does all the time...right...), removed their brains from the bodies, and since that still was not enough WTF they then then chopped away half of those brains (just because).
The gain of all that? Well, MCT's psychiatrists have a secure job...


@Udoshi:

A CCU on the other hand, comes with some hardware - because it says it does.

And where does it say that? The description of the Cybord Adaptation mod talks about "Equipping a drone or vehicle to accommodate a CCU" and then paraphrases the important parts of the cyborg rules.

You get what you pay for

Not when it comes to deltaware. A delta clinic is not a country club which admits people above a certain income, it is the crown jewel of every corp's medical division. Why should they let in some nobody from the streets just because he waves around a fat wad of cash, it's not like the corps running delta clinics need your 250k to survive.

Also, use some common sense: 18 availability would mean that acquiring a CCU is easier than buying a MANPADS.

[Yerameyahu]

In Arsenal, which's been quoted already, it explains that a CCU comes with Rating 4 commlink, etc.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

In Arsenal, which's been quoted already, it explains that a CCU comes with Rating 4 commlink, etc.

Indeed it does, as well as several other things too...

See Page 160 of Augmentation... Headings: Hardwired and Skills...
Page 134 of Arsenal... Cyborg Adaptation also details the CCU

These tell you what the CCU contains...

Hot Sim Modified Comlink (All 4's)
A Simsense Booster Implant
A Control Rig
Rating 6 Damage Compensators
Brain is immune to all Contact and Inhalation Vector Toxins
Capacity 12 to add additional "Options"

Rating 5 Skillwires package is included in the Cyborg Adaptation

Keep the Faith