CGL Speculation #8, Put on your asbestos underwear Options

[Fuchs]

Does that refer to the income of Stansel's household then, not IMR's?

[MindandPen]

Should be mentioned in the summary then.

It is, under the Spoiler Tag, taken from the "Who's Who" thread.

-M&P

[Fuchs]

I meant the part about the irregularities with the membership records.

[LurkerOutThere]

Except to everyone but you that is a non issue, it hasn't even been raised in the legal proceedings.

[Fuchs]

It does illuminate the way business is and was done at IMR though.

[Ancient History]

Except to everyone but you that is a non issue, it hasn't even been raised in the legal proceedings.

It's an issue. It is not, however, an issue we have a lot of hard data on - me tricking Kid Chameleon into saying something stupid, while moderately gratifying, is not productive. Neither is six pages of arguments over one word.

And as far as Jason and the freelancer pool goes, he's right - the pool was shrinking a long time before he came, so it's not like he came along and everybody got out of the pool. It was generally small enough that the dramatic absence or alienation of several of the more experienced freelancers and their replacement by people like David Hill is a big deal, at least in my mind.

[fastdos]

The freelancer pool is my big issue. I know Jason has done everything in his power to get good writers and get people who know the game, there is a difference between people who pour their soul into SR and those who are just pulling in writing credits. I don't know the new freelancers all that well yet, so I can't say which side of the fence they come down on. I really have no choice but to trust that they're in it for the right reasons. Until I don't. Truthfully though, there are a couple of new writers that I am absolutely optimistic about and some not so much, but thats the way its always been with SR. Hell, I was one of those guys folks really weren't optimistic about at first. And they told me about it.

All that being said, I still believe SR is hurt by not having folks like Bobby around. No matter what feelings were wounded in this debate, you can't deny the impact he's had on SR. The amount of work and research he puts into what he writes is legendary. We need to find a way to fix this.

In regards to CGL, i'd love to see a business-side comparison to FanPro and even FASA. It feels like we've been going through this kind of stuff (late or missed payments, schedule and shipping delays) through many iterations of SR.

[Demonseed Elite]

In regards to CGL, i'd love to see a business-side comparison to FanPro and even FASA. It feels like we've been going through this kind of stuff (late or missed payments, schedule and shipping delays) through many iterations of SR.

That's because we have been. All three companies had their problems with payments and release schedules. I know I experienced the same problems writing under FASA, FanPro, and CGL.

I can't really speak to anything more in-depth than that. CGL's current situation is unique for its own reasons, notably all the alleged goings-on with Loren and the company bank account.

[Cthulhudreams]

It does illuminate the way business is and was done at IMR though.

Which is important, as it is easier to perpetuate a massive fraud in an environment with poor corporate governance. If the actual owners are not registered as the owners and do not watch the books, I'd say the corporate governance was catastrophically bad.

[augmentin]

EDIT: Removed because it didn't add anything to the speculation and many others have added pointless posts before me.

Sorry.

[Catadmin]

At some point in CGL Speculation #x it was alleged that some of the former freelancers were actively working to ensure CGL didn't get the license so that they could go work for the a new company.

There were freelancers who said they'd like to work for the next company to come along. And there were people (non-freelancers) who tried to get a money pool together to buy the license from Topps. One thread of discussion was entirely unrelated to the other.

And I will not speculate on the subliminal mind control messages hidden in the SR texts. All I will say is that it has nothing to do with your "vast freelancer conspiracy" theory.

Honest.

[JM Hardy]

There were freelancers who said they'd like to work for the next company to come along. And there were people (non-freelancers) who tried to get a money pool together to buy the license from Topps. One thread of discussion was entirely unrelated to the other.

And I will not speculate on the subliminal mind control messages hidden in the SR texts. All I will say is that it has nothing to do with your "vast freelancer conspiracy" theory.

Honest.

Ixnay on the indmay ontrolcay!

Jason H.

[Catadmin]

Ixnay on the indmay ontrolcay!

Jason H.

Whoops! My bad.

[Endroren]

And I will not speculate on the subliminal mind control messages hidden in the SR texts. All I will say is that it has nothing to do with your "vast freelancer conspiracy" theory.

But unless you show how, advantageous design occurs whenever readers underestimate nuances. Plus, remember, old devils use conspiracy to survive.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Catadmin]

But unless you show how, advantageous design occurs whenever readers underestimate nuances. Plus, remember, old devils use conspiracy to survive.

I'm under NDA. I cannot comment on such speculation.

@=)

[Taharqa]

now, while I have no idea who Laughing man is - nor do I particularly care - Sandstorm Productions LLC does indeed exist, and is indeed populated by few familiar names. In fact, Ergo and Balance of Power (which were both upcoming CGL games) designers the Brothers Knudson are both listed in "About Us" section - not sure if that means Closet Nerd Games has become Sandstorm, or its a license situation.

Thank you for the link. I tried to google it but my search skills weren't up to snuff. I am surprised that more is not being made of this. If Sandstorm is one of the companies competing for the licenses, then this revelation casts everything in a new light. For one thing, it would cast a great deal of suspicion on Jennifer Harding's claims. No longer would she just be a disgruntled employee, but rather a self-interested player. It also would suggest that Stansel-Garner's actions (like taking all of CGL's financial records with him) were motivated by more than spite.

[Ancient History]

Simmer down there, Pippin. As much as I enjoy you taking the time off of defending Loren L. Coleman and Randall Bills to cast aspersions on the people that willingly left the company for their own reasons, there's been nothing to indicate these guys are even edging for any of the licenses.

Put it another way: is it really that damn peculiar that a group of people with a history of working together in the gaming industry, now out of a job, would maybe decide to start up another gaming company?

[Stahlseele]

if this all blows over, how high would the probability be that the colemans and the bills would start something new together?

[LurkerOutThere]

Simmer down there, Pippin. As much as I enjoy you taking the time off of defending Loren L. Coleman and Randall Bills to cast aspersions on the people that willingly left the company for their own reasons, there's been nothing to indicate these guys are even edging for any of the licenses.

Put it another way: is it really that damn peculiar that a group of people with a history of working together in the gaming industry, now out of a job, would maybe decide to start up another gaming company?

With all due respect and no malice to anyone involved this thread has been absolutely chock full of rampant speculation personal aspersions, accusations, etc. Some of you have problems with Coleman, I get that, some of you have problems with Bills, I get that, some of you have problems with Jason, I get that less but sure. BUt you want you want certain people to be sacrosanct? Yea whatever.

[Taharqa]

Simmer down there, Pippin. As much as I enjoy you taking the time off of defending Loren L. Coleman and Randall Bills to cast aspersions on the people that willingly left the company for their own reasons, there's been nothing to indicate these guys are even edging for any of the licenses.

Put it another way: is it really that damn peculiar that a group of people with a history of working together in the gaming industry, now out of a job, would maybe decide to start up another gaming company?

That is why I was very careful with the qualifiers used in the last post. You might want to re-read it. I try to be clear about speculative comments, but just in case it wasn't clear: The existence of Sandstorm and the involvement of said people is verifiable fact (see link). It has been alleged that they are competing for the license, which is unsubstantiated.

[BTFreeLancer]

Put it another way: is it really that damn peculiar that a group of people with a history of working together in the gaming industry, now out of a job, would maybe decide to start up another gaming company?

not particularly. No offense to Sandstorm or it's staff, but I think it's a bad idea to have gamers/writers running the business side of things. That goes for IMR/CGL too btw - and any game company in general.

Though I do find it interesting that Closet Nerd Games announced their acquisition by Sandstorm three days before Sandstorm officially existed. Not that it means anything important - just shows that Sandstorm was active before it's incorporation date.

[Ancient History]

That is why I was very careful with the qualifiers used in the last post. You might want to re-read it. I try to be clear about speculative comments, but just in case it wasn't clear: The existence of Sandstorm and the involvement of said people is verifiable fact (see link). It has been alleged that they are competing for the license, which is unsubstantiated.

I'm sorry, was that the same post where you claimed David Stansel had stolen company documents and called Jen a liar?

For one thing, it would cast a great deal of suspicion on Jennifer Harding's claims. No longer would she just be a disgruntled employee, but rather a self-interested player. It also would suggest that Stansel-Garner's actions (like taking all of CGL's financial records with him) were motivated by more than spite.

Why yes it was!

[Taharqa]

Let me help you out, AH.

Thank you for the link. I tried to google it but my search skills weren't up to snuff. I am surprised that more is not being made of this. If Sandstorm is one of the companies competing for the licenses, then this revelation casts everything in a new light. For one thing, it would cast a great deal of suspicion on Jennifer Harding's claims. No longer would she just be a disgruntled employee, but rather a self-interested player. It also would suggest that Stansel-Garner's actions (like taking all of CGL's financial records with him) were motivated by more than spite.

I actually spent a good deal of time looking that over to make sure I wouldn't be called out for pushing speculation as fact. Oh well.

[otakusensei]

With all due respect and no malice to anyone involved this thread has been absolutely chock full of rampant speculation personal aspersions, accusations, etc. Some of you have problems with Coleman, I get that, some of you have problems with Bills, I get that, some of you have problems with Jason, I get that less but sure. BUt you want you want certain people to be sacrosanct? Yea whatever.

I believe he was just asking that people look at the formation of a gaming company by people who worked together at a gaming company in a logical way. You know, like maybe they like making games and work well together?

Now if you're pulling for Team Coleman to come out on top I could see you having a problem with the former members of IMR banding together to form their own company. For one it makes it seem like there may be another company with more experience and a better track record writing for the game that you are licensed to publish. Not what you want to see around license renewal time, I'm sure. For my part I wish them the best of luck and hope that they make more money at their endeavor than they did unemployed; which as I understand it is the trick to master in that industry.

[Cthulhudreams]

Let me help you out, AH.



I actually spent a good deal of time looking that over to make sure I wouldn't be called out for pushing speculation as fact. Oh well.

You know that post unequivocally states that Stansel stole the documents right? Which AH said it didn, and you said it didn't.

Quote here

Stansel-Garner's actions (like taking all of CGL's financial records with him) were motivated by more than spite.

There is no actual proof he stole anything - this is straight up pushing speculation as fact. I suggest your proofing (like mine) needs more work.

Anyway, IF sandstorm is competing for the license, it means that either

A) Coleman is a fraudster; or

B) The investors in Sandstorm LLC are comedy stupid.

Because Sandstorm would only compete if they knew for sure (and as insiders they are well positioned too know) that the Topps audit was going to show that Coleman had defrauded Topps. Because as a business, I doubt Topps would move the license from someone with a track record of success (what Coleman is if he's not a fraud), to an unknown quantity - unless said track record was siphoning their profits.