CGL Speculation #8, Put on your asbestos underwear Options

[Cardul]

It's indicative of what I don't like about how 4e's metaplot has been handled -- focused exclusively on down-and-dirty street-level play and ignoring those of us who like the IEs and dragons and Deus turning the Archology into a horror show that would may the dude from Saw gag and Dunkelzahn's will and all that other stuff. I'm missing that in 4e and I want it back.

I have to agree there. However, as we all know, if there are ever any hints of that, the majority of Dumpshock rises in revolt and flames against the writers. I mean, we are talking about a forum that, over all, has a policy that one is not supposed to make your characters at the 400 BP, but at 300, and restrict availability to 8 or even 6 to make it "street"
because the BBB is "too powerful for street level play."

I agree that I would love some more cool stuff like Dunk's Will, but I have to accept that all that is in the past, because Dumpshock doesn't like it.

[hermit]

IMO, the last good book for Shadowrun I've read was Dragons of the Sixth World. That's not saying much though because the only competition is Emergence.

Urgh, then you really went for the bad, didn't you?

Read Running Wild, it has some nice stuff on nonhuman intelligences and the Infected. One of the best new booksd (with Emergence being the worst, even before the trainwreck that is the Companion). Augmentation also is a nice read. The new Adventures make good reads too, even though I, as you, tire a bit of this focus on street level petttty crime. But at least they try to be more epically influential (even though I think you best write up new characters after Ghost cartels, but that may be just me). The little web-only snippets are worth a look too. Oh, and Runner Havens and Seattle '72.

DotS really read like the ED dragons book in parts, btw.

[fistandantilus4....]

I mean, we are talking about a forum that, over all, has a policy that one is not supposed to make your characters at the 400 BP, but at 300, and restrict availability to 8 or even 6 to make it "street"
because the BBB is "too powerful for street level play."

To hell with that. My games start at 500BP. And you need them. For one, with a 200BP limit on attributes ... you know what, NM, got going to get into that rant and derail anymore. Let's just let this be an example of how varied the games can be.

FWIW, I've really enjoyed Seattle 2072, and Corp Guide so far. Waiting to see the end result with Dawn of the Artifacts before I let myself really have an opinion there though.

Although I really enjoyed Ghost Cartels from a GM standpoint, it turned out to be a bitch and a half for those involved when I ran it. But I think with more books coming out to expand on the setting more, and tie back in to old metaplot threads (which is one of the main reasons I like the first two mentioned) , there's going to be more worth while for those of us ready to climb out of the streets and back into some grand conspiracys. I hope.

[Fuchs]

Here's an interesting bit of information from the Den:

Dave wasn't living in a vacuum. He had access to the books and the chequebook.

This is false. Dave never had access to the checkbook -- we actually argued for him to have an operational budget as the operations manager, but Loren refused. Dave also only had access to some invoices, not the full books.

There were massive operational problems well before the shit really hit the fan. People were going unpaid long before the massive draws shown on PD's leaked graphs.

AFAIK, this is also false. I can't speak to IMR's books before Catalyst was formed, but the graphs show that Loren started making big draws right after Catalyst was formed. So Catalyst started off with simultaneous missing money and unpaid invoices.

For the record, I am no apologist for Dave. I'll be blunt and say that Dave and I had very serious differences during our time together at Catalyst. I am just correcting the facts here.

[Lansdren]

I myself like the chance to do big metaplot stuff. It also gives the oppertunity for that big score or going out in a blaze of glory that can give a group a nice way to close a campaign

[General Pax]

I have to agree there. However, as we all know, if there are ever any hints of that, the majority of Dumpshock rises in revolt and flames against the writers. I mean, we are talking about a forum that, over all, has a policy that one is not supposed to make your characters at the 400 BP, but at 300, and restrict availability to 8 or even 6 to make it "street"
because the BBB is "too powerful for street level play."

I agree that I would love some more cool stuff like Dunk's Will, but I have to accept that all that is in the past, because Dumpshock doesn't like it.

I thought the fanbase wasnt the problem at all and it was all cgl??? Wasnt that what you people were saying just a few days ago??? Or does that not count becaus of the persons postcount back then???

[Fuchs]

I haven't seen many games started here that use 300 BP. Usually it's 400 BP, and with bonus contacts, or other ways to get more BP.

[Lansdren]

Mostly I see 400 point games too and more often games with higher then lower bp or karma. Mine in fact is running at 500bp

[Cardul]

I thought the fanbase wasnt the problem at all and it was all cgl??? Wasnt that what you people were saying just a few days ago??? Or does that not count becaus of the persons postcount back then???

Excuse me? What do you mean by "you people"? Are you meaning Fans of Both Battletech and Shadowrun? Are
you meaning Pagans? Are you meaning hotel workers? Are you meaning Americans?

[Lansdren]

Excuse me? What do you mean by "you people"? Are you meaning Fans of Both Battletech and Shadowrun? Are
you meaning Pagans? Are you meaning hotel workers? Are you meaning Americans?

Dont rise to it, its not worth it

[hermit]

Excuse me? What do you mean by "you people"? Are you meaning Fans of Both Battletech and Shadowrun? Are you meaning Pagans? Are you meaning hotel workers? Are you meaning Americans?

Guess he is referring to Trollman and his fellows mainly. Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

[General Pax]

Guess he is referring to Trollman and his fellows mainly. Talk about barking up the wrong tree.

No. I mean the people in this thread. When someone said that the fanbase is becomin rude and meanspirited and condiscending they got lambasted for it and yelled at for their postcount. Now someone else says basicly the same thing but with a high postcount and everyone is agreeing??? I guess it just proves the point that much more.

[Fuchs]

No. I mean the people in this thread. When someone said that the fanbase is becomin rude and meanspirited and condiscending they got lambasted for it and yelled at for their postcount. Now someone else says basicly the same thing but with a high postcount and everyone is agreeing??? I guess it just proves the point that much more.

Not everyone is agreeing. In fact, almost all are disagreeing with the claim that "street level" as in "low powered" is the norm on DS.

[hermit]

No. I mean the people in this thread. When someone said that the fanbase is becomin rude and meanspirited and condiscending they got lambasted for it and yelled at for their postcount. Now someone else says basicly the same thing but with a high postcount and everyone is agreeing??? I guess it just proves the point that much more.

No, just being mostly ignored or politely disagreed with.

Also, hyperpunctuation makes everyone seem they are totally hyper, so word of friendly advice, one exclamation/quzestion mark gets the job done just fine.

And a high post count won't help you much; however, since you pop in here and basically troll, like many others have, you are bound to face some suspicion. Maybe just tone it down a bit and chill? You'll find you're respected a lot more that way, post count or not.

[General Pax]

People like you telling other people to tone down post less and chill??? Thats hilarius.

[hermit]

People like you telling other people to tone down post less and chill??? Thats hilarius.

Do I know you? oô

[Grinder]

Calm down, guys. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/extinguish.gif)

[Method]

Friendly reminder (again):

1. Personal attacks, flaming, trolling, and baiting are prohibited. This includes any form of racism, sexism or religious intolerance.

hermit and Pax: you both need to drop it.


edit: doah! Grinder beat me to it.

[Fuchs]

Street Level is currently discussed here.

[Grinder]

Partly, yes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Demonseed Elite]

Hey, on that whole metaplot discussion, I just want to clear things up about what was going through the minds of the writers and developers a few years ago. Mind you, I'm not a freelancer anymore and I only have vague ideas about the current plans for the metaplot are and I won't talk about them anyway. But back when Peter Taylor was the line developer and I was a writer, we all had plans for metaplot developments that were similar in scope and theme to the examples that have been cited here (Dunk's will, the Arcology, etc.). Ghost Cartels was a beginning step in this direction. The plot had its start at a street level, but it involved vast and conspiratorial elements. Those spirits behind the Tempo production weren't just window dressing, we had plans for them.

[Ancient History]

And I never did get my Cod Wars IV between Gaeatronics and Thule.

[MindandPen]

Every place has its trigger phrases and hot buttons, and Dumpshock isn't an exception to that rule. Right about now, I'd imagine Loren Coleman would be one, but I'm sure cybered vampires, the Dragonheart, Leonardo, and plenty of other things will trigger similar reactions here.

• Immortal Elves
• Great Dragons
• Metaplot
• Street vs Hero Centric Campaign
• LLC/IMR/CGL and Freelancers
• TOPPS License Renewal
• Lone Star Cops, Unicorns and the Tiger Eyes Belly-Button Ring
• SR4 Rules Issues
• Hacker vs. Technomancer
• Magician / Adept / Mystic Adept
• Netcat and Slamm-O!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

-M&P

[Grinder]

And I never did get my Cod Wars IV between Gaeatronics and Thule.

Tell us more!

[Ancient History]

I wanted a small-scale conflict between a minor 6th world nation and an AA-rated megacorp - the sort of thing that could go on in the background news posts and JackPoint login pages and stuff for multiple sourcebooks, provide hooks for mercenary runs, that sort of thing. I'd just been reading Cod: A Biography of the Fish that Changes the World by Mark Kurlansky, so I was sort of focusing on the Cod Wars - the three incredibly low-key conflicts between Iceland and Great Britain about fishing rights. The basic plot I'd come up with is that Gaeatronics had bought a small island off the coast of the Thule Protectorate (Iceland) with the intent to build a geothermal power plant; the local officials objected because the geothermal tap and/or waste runoff would change the ecological balance of the surrounding waters, effecting fishing and other activities as well as causing possible fallout on the astral plane. Heated dialogue from Gaeatronics (who try to go over the local official's head to the Trans-Polar Aleut government), and the chilly demeanor of the Thule natives lead to a blockade of the island, which prompts several small incidents (blockade running, sabotage, a helicopter getting shot down by a surface-to-air-missile from a Thule fishing boat, etc.) until the situation escalates into an undeclared open conflict.

That...didn't happen. I wanted it to happen. I even included a brief bit in my TNN draft that was designed for the Tir elves to put pressure on Thule to relinquish certain claims on the sunken islands in exchange for weapons. However, other war-based plotlines gained greater prominence in the popular imagination.