Unpublished Drafts - Free for All, Chapters that might have been Options

[Demonseed Elite]

I think you just clearly demonstrated the problem with retconning things!

[Stahlseele]

That would amount to reconning most of the fucked up insanities of the SR timeline, and many of those (the NAN for a big example) are sacred cows.

Well, fucked up does not neccessarely mean bad . .

[MindandPen]

I'm not kidding...the extraction is going to go perfectly to whatever their original plan is. Security's going to be elsewhere or on a bathroom break, alarms will suddenly fail, bystanders will offer assistance, everything is going to run absolutely perfectly...and if they can manage to NOT say the magic words, they'll get out. They'll complete the run and the shutdown happens immediately after they exit. However, if they DARE to tempt fate...if they even breath anything remotely like "This is too easy"...that's when gates slam shut.

Heh Heh Heh Heh Heh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

I like.

-M&P

[Synner]

I'm reading what you wrote for India. Because I was curious. I'm just starting but I have a question. Why in /Hades left testicle/ is the new Sikh country called Khalistan? -stan is a muslim denominator.

I assume a little about the Sikh autonomist/independentist movement and its history. I suggest you look into it (start here), before criticizing other people's research...

For the record the "-stan" is not a "Muslim designation", its use in Central Asia and Indian subcontinent comes from the bastard child of Persian, Arabic, Turkic and Pastu tongues, the Hindustani Urdu language. Its widespread use originates during the Mughal Empire. While Islamic the Mughals actually developed from the Central Asian Timurids, which in turns explains why Urdu is one of the dominant languages in both the subcontinent and neighboring regions.

The Sikh and Muslims hate each other with a passion that is rivaled pretty much by noone. They make the Palestinian/Jewish conflict look positively friendly.

They have a bloody history, but things simply aren't that black and white. In fact, you're oversimplifying to an extreme. For instance there have been Sikh honor guards to Muslim emperors, and the Guru Granth Sahib cites Muslim texts, parables and hymns. Though there's been bad blood since the Mughal emperors' attempts to convert and persecute the nascent Sikh faith (which explains its roots as a warrior order), there's a whole lot more to it than simplistic hatred.

For the record: a little further research will reveal that several key texts of the Sikh faith, the writings of the Sikh Gurus were in Urdu - including tracts of the Guru Granth Sahib (which, by the way, includes mantras and hymns written by Muslim holy men). A comparative study of Sikh theology and (non-Wahhabist) Islam will reveal telling parallels. And I won't even get started on the commonalities between certain Sufi and Sikh ritual practices.

Why are the Sikhs in the Kashmir Valley? They're originally from Punjabi

That is correct. According to Shadows of Asia Khalistan occupies a large portion of what used to be Punjab and the Sikhs simply neighbor the Kashmir Valley. The Sikh homeland happens to be in the path of the fallout with many of the rivers running south polluted by the Kashmir nuclear exchange. (note I haven't read Bobby's cut texts nor did I consult on the Almanac so I cannotvouch for the contents, but I did write the Shadows of Asia chapter and I thoroughly research my subject matter.)

It's just. Was this info pulled from previous source or just bad homework? So much could have been done with India. The tech industry, the caste system. It reads very dissapointing.

I suggest you read Shadows of Asia for the original piece on Sixth World India, I believe you'll find most of what you mention and then some.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Most people forget that Shadowrun timeline diverts from ours in 1989. So, when you try to compare the world of today with the world of 40 years from now imagined 20 years ago of course there will be things that don't make sense.

[Abstruse]

Most people forget that Shadowrun timeline diverts from ours in 1989. So, when you try to compare the world of today with the world of 40 years from now imagined 20 years ago of course there will be things that don't make sense.

Actually, the first major diversion wasn't until 1999 when the Shiawase Decision didn't happen. That one can be glossed over a bit, but if a dragon doesn't pop out of Mt. Fuji in a year and a half, I'm going to be very upset...

[HappyDaze]

Well, fucked up does not neccessarely mean bad . .

Very true. Except when it's false! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Bull]

Actually, the first major diversion wasn't until 1999 when the Shiawase Decision didn't happen. That one can be glossed over a bit, but if a dragon doesn't pop out of Mt. Fuji in a year and a half, I'm going to be very upset...

Yes, the first major diversion. However, the split really does start in 1989, as most things are based on what things were then. There's been a few minor retcons and tweaks in the 20 years since, but for the most part... Shadowrun is the world of the future, seen through the lens of 1989.

Bull

[RunnerPaul]

Actually, the first major diversion wasn't until 1999 when the Shiawase Decision didn't happen.

The 1991 fall of the Soviet Union was fairly major, but FASA was able to retcon that with the release of SR2, so that leaves the fact that Princess Diana dieing well before she could ever become the Queen Diana described in the London Sourcebook the earliest major diversion in my opinion.

[Tzeentch]

There was some talk about this during Shadows of North America brainstorming. My personal belief is that the Shadowrun universe diverged a long time ago (especially if you consider Earthdawn as actual hidden history), with major divergence probably no later than the 1970s to help account for the "somewhat" whacky world conditions and demographics (it's implied that the 'modern' Shadowrun version of megacorps date back to the 1980s as well -- if you use a broad interpretation of Shadowrun, Third Editions timeline text).

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

Actually, the first major diversion wasn't until 1999 when the Shiawase Decision didn't happen. That one can be glossed over a bit, but if a dragon doesn't pop out of Mt. Fuji in a year and a half, I'm going to be very upset...

The whole Shiawase Incident wouldn't have happened if the world wasn't already caothic for 10 years already. Poverty, hunger, droughts. All this happened during SR's 90's that lead to the truckers' strike of 99 that lead to the Shiawase Incident.

[Catadmin]

The whole Shiawase Incident wouldn't have happened if the world wasn't already caothic for 10 years already. Poverty, hunger, droughts. All this happened during SR's 90's that lead to the truckers' strike of 99 that lead to the Shiawase Incident.

I think you're getting things mixed up. Seretech was the truckers strike issue, was it not? -> Corps right to maintain personal armies.

Shiawase was the nuclear power plant defending itself from protesters. -> Corporate extraterritorialty.

Seretech happened first, in 99. Shiawase in 2000.

[Bull]

There was some talk about this during Shadows of North America brainstorming. My personal belief is that the Shadowrun universe diverged a long time ago (especially if you consider Earthdawn as actual hidden history), with major divergence probably no later than the 1970s to help account for the "somewhat" whacky world conditions and demographics (it's implied that the 'modern' Shadowrun version of megacorps date back to the 1980s as well -- if you use a broad interpretation of Shadowrun, Third Editions timeline text).

Ken! Holy shit, talk about random people popping up outta nowhere! How you been?

And yeah, I agree with this as well. It's never been spelled out in detail because, well, why does it need to be? But I imagine there were a lot of subtle differences starting in the 60's on up through the 80's and 90's with the way certain corps developed, laws passed, etc. Nothing really noticeable, but enough to slowly lay groundwork for things that happen later in SR.
\
But even going back to the late 80's, with the prominence of the Japanacorps in early Shadowrun and throughout the 21st century prior to 2050, it's obvious that one deviation was that the Japancorps never "declined" as they ended up doing in the early 90's.

Bull

[Stormwraith]

Thanks for posting these AH, just wished you got paid for them.

[HappyDaze]

Thanks for posting these AH, just wished you got paid for them.

If he had gotten paid for them, then we wouldn't be able to talk openly here about downloading them for free. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Tzeentch]

Ken! Holy shit, talk about random people popping up outta nowhere! How you been?

-- Finishing my Masters. They start leaning on you after you start working on your 3rd/4th undergraduate degree to move on or up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I haven't really been doing anything interesting with Shadowrun for a while, but I still tinker with updates for Salish-Shidhe and Tir Tairngire (I try to keep track of the rather vague updates SR4 has dropped on those two areas). I'm sort of on standby until I see what happens in the Almanac.

And yeah, I agree with this as well. It's never been spelled out in detail because, well, why does it need to be? But I imagine there were a lot of subtle differences starting in the 60's on up through the 80's and 90's with the way certain corps developed, laws passed, etc. Nothing really noticeable, but enough to slowly lay groundwork for things that happen later in SR.

-- There was an annoying habit of retconning early historical elements each revision of the rules too -- even before you get into the sometimes bizarre personal grudges that freelancers have about setting minutiae (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) It's easy to forget that the game was in development and most of the major setting elements set down in a haze of crackpipe smoke before the game even saw print in 1989

But even going back to the late 80's, with the prominence of the Japanacorps in early Shadowrun and throughout the 21st century prior to 2050, it's obvious that one deviation was that the Japancorps never "declined" as they ended up doing in the early 90's.

-- Shadowrun has a metric boatload of "a wizard corporation did it" design decisions that look increasingly silly due to setting inertia: each edition revises the decker rules and then proceeds to just tinker around the edges of other things. I expect Shadowrun, Fifth Edition to have yet another iteration of the Matrix (that still looks outdated or is unplayable) and some minor changes here and there in "flyover country" outside of Seattle. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) For example, the Tír na nÓg draft posted by Ancient works mightily to make the area more "playable" (e.g. reverse the authorial immunity Sargent & Gascoigne gave it in the book set in 2053) but only truly misbegotten areas like Tsimshian ever actually die off no matter how ridiculous their situation would really be. It's been 22 game years with world shattering events one after another, and only cosmetic stuff gets shuffled around or accretes on a rickity metaplot that more often then not relies on freelancer in-jokes and hooks hidden in books over two decades out of print (or from novels that were never actually printed) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

-- An Ultimate Shadowrun so new players can get their heads around the core setting elements without all the baggage since First Edition was released is my dream. Make it happen!

[otaku mike]

You mean, Shadowrun 5th Edition, a big world reboot, like the WoD reboot?
It's actually something that appeals to me.

Mike

[otakusensei]

You mean, Shadowrun 5th Edition, a big world reboot, like the WoD reboot?
It's actually something that appeals to me.

Mike

Exact opposite over here. That kind of reboot would throw out years of back story and established fluff in a system that can easily be run without it.

I was in a WoD game for a year and a half and had a great time. Same group of people can't seem to keep a nWoD game going more than a few sessions, even if the ruleset is better.

[Abstruse]

I haven't really been doing anything interesting with Shadowrun for a while, but I still tinker with updates for Salish-Shidhe and Tir Tairngire (I try to keep track of the rather vague updates SR4 has dropped on those two areas).

So can YOU tell me what the hell happened other than "Oh, we got bored with Tir so we had the rebels win."?! It's been bugging the hell out of me.

-- An Ultimate Shadowrun so new players can get their heads around the core setting elements without all the baggage since First Edition was released is my dream. Make it happen!

And the second that happens, I promise you I will never buy another Shadowrun product ever again. Shadowrun is awesome fiction for me first and a role playing game second.

[Platinum]

You mean, Shadowrun 5th Edition, a big world reboot, like the WoD reboot?
It's actually something that appeals to me.

Mike

For SR5 I wish they would just name it something else other than shadowrun.
Retconn the whole thing from todays perspective and quit pissing on the works of those who wrote before them.
The damn metaplot and advancing timeline has been the heaviest millstone around Shadowrun's neck, next to Rob Boyle and Carl Sargant.

[HappyDaze]

I would love a reboot of the SR line with many sacred cows slaughtered.

[Synner667]

I would love a reboot of the SR line with many sacred cows slaughtered.

As someone said, just tidy it all up...

I know many people like the detail, but I think too much detail is part of the problem - it limits what can be said and done without "breaking" the setting

I said it before, I think SR 4 should have been set in NYC and been a reboot, with a focus on the world from that viewpoint [so lots of things could have been different, as they would have been seen differently].

Although not a very good metaphor, when osx came along it was a break from previous versions of the operating system...
...Which, while being roughly the same in result, was very different.

Really, SR just needs a tidy up, some proper forward planning for the world and not changing things for the sake of it.

[Dread Moores]

I would love a reboot of the SR line with many sacred cows slaughtered.

Yes. Quite a bit. Additionally, guidelines need to be put in place to keep future fiction and rule bloat way down. Fiction bloat has been a big issue for me with newer players, in terms of being a turn off.

[hermit]

Although not a very good metaphor, when osx came along it was a break from previous versions of the operating system...
...Which, while being roughly the same in result, was very different.

It also developed to be a spectacular failure.

Which is what an SR reboot would be. That'd be the breaking point for me with the game, too.

[Fuchs]

People can easily rest the setting themselves. I haven't followed the metaplot since sometime past Chicago, picking and choosing what to implement from the metaplot, and I can play Shadowrun just fine.