Interesting Metal Storm tech Options

[Yerameyahu]

I find that the bullet DVs match up nicely to real-world bullet-power *categories* (9mm, 5.56, 7.62 short, 7.62 long), but I couldn't say if they match up in a linear way. The best correlation formula (R^2=0.9799) that I got from muzzle energy to DV is a power curve, but obviously muzzle energy is only one of a dozen measures.

[Deadmannumberone]

There are three factors that determine ballistic damage effect; The frontal cross section of the round, the velocity of the round, and the impact energy transfer. A .45 Long Colt with a lead flat nose bullet has the first and third in spades, however the second is significantly lacking, especially when compared to a round like the 5.56 mm NATO or the .270 Winchester. In '01 I worked up a fairly complex formula for determining recoil, power, staging, and an armor penetration rating for firearms in SR3 using some fairly complex algebra 2 kind of math that I can only partially remember at this time. I've got some more simplified simplified formulas for SR4 that I'm working on, but I'm not completely satisfied with them.

[Saint Sithney]

So the regular HE grenade is approximately 1.5 kg of rating 8 explosive, or 1,200¥ equivalent plus detonator, and the microgrenade is approximately 0.7 kg of rating 12 explosive, or 840¥ equivalent plus detonator.

And I'm with Tachi in wanting to get more detail in the weapons/ammo/grenades section.

Yeah, and that 1.5 kg of rating 8 explosive puts a standard grenade at about the size of a grapefruit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

This damage system definitely needs work, but I don't think reducing grenades to 1/3rd of their original effectiveness does it. Maybe raising them to 3x original cost and making better claymore-style explosives rules would help. Scaling DV is such a pain in the ass though..

[Deadmannumberone]

[quote name='Saint Sithney' date='Jun 11 2010, 03:47 PM' post='941023']
Yeah, and that 1.5 kg of rating 8 explosive puts a standard grenade at about the size of a grapefruit. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
[quote]

Yes, and that's just the explosive. Add in the detonator and shell and you'll get about another inch to the total diameter and half kilo to the weight. Have you ever thrown a 2 kilo object? A real life hand grenade weighs around a half kilo and has a quarter kilo of explosive in it, while a GL grenade is about a third of a kilo and has only 15-20 grams of explosive in it.

[Saint Sithney]

So, I just re-read the rules for creating an IED.
It's an extended test, where all hits over threshold count towards the DV of the device. I don't even know how to handle such a situation. Could a player keep taking tests until his DP is reduced to an unreasonable number? Could someone with logic boosters and a decent demo skill prep a grenade which does 20DV or more with just a kilo of commercial explosives? Taking 18 tests with 18 dice means atomic grenades are on the menu...

[Yerameyahu]

It seems like you just stop after you succeed. The net hits (on the last roll) is just a minor random element under any normal circumstances, a +2 or +4, maybe.

[Deadmannumberone]

So, I just re-read the rules for creating an IED.
It's an extended test, where all hits over threshold count towards the DV of the device. I don't even know how to handle such a situation. Could a player keep taking tests until his DP is reduced to an unreasonable number? Could someone with logic boosters and a decent demo skill prep a grenade which does 20DV or more with just a kilo of commercial explosives? Taking 18 tests with 18 dice means atomic grenades are on the menu...

RAW is a bit absurd in that aspect (i was able to build a character with a dicepool of 27 on demolitions, and on a related knowledge skill, which would be able to buy 264 hits or average 363 hits rolled in a little over 19 hours using the book recommended limit on extended tests), however, if you limit it by disallowing overrolling (once the threshold is met, no further rolls can be made), it makes it much more acceptable (same character would buy 18 hits, or average 22 hits rolled in just over an hour).

It seems like you just stop after you succeed. The net hits (on the last roll) is just a minor random element under any normal circumstances, a +2 or +4, maybe.

It is possible that that is RAI, it isn't RAW.

[Yerameyahu]

I guess. I've never heard that you're allowed to continue Extended Tests after reaching the Threshold. It seems like deliberate rule-mangling. RAUnintended, if you will. Anyway, it makes no difference, because all games will have GMs. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dumori]

In most cases you never have need to overroll but its deffently RAW if not RAI in demo tests.

[hobgoblin]

how net hits from an extended test works have never been established in the rules, iirc. I think this may be the only place where its outright stated tho, but i think there may be one or two places where such a test could come out of corner cases.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So, I just re-read the rules for creating an IED.
It's an extended test, where all hits over threshold count towards the DV of the device. I don't even know how to handle such a situation. Could a player keep taking tests until his DP is reduced to an unreasonable number? Could someone with logic boosters and a decent demo skill prep a grenade which does 20DV or more with just a kilo of commercial explosives? Taking 18 tests with 18 dice means atomic grenades are on the menu...

Once the threshold is met, you do not continue rolling... any hits remaining over the Threshold (when that threshold was met) will add to DV...

EDIT: As multiple others have pointed out... what I get for not reading to the end of the Topic.

Keep the Faith