I just don't get the Matrix, at all... Options

[CorvusVlos]

I understand combat, hell, I understand (And am in LOVE with) the Magic mechanic... I understand rigging, and I even understand how Adepts work... But Matrix stuff? I don't get it at all. Now, this may be because 4th edition is my first time playing Shadowrun (Except for a small one shot when I was 12, which was nearly 10 years ago.), and definitely my first time running it... However, is there some sort of guide to it all? The core book seems like it should make sense, but every time I sit down to read it, I end up scratching my head in confusion... What should I do, folks?

This post has been edited by CorvusVlos: Jun 9 2010, 01:46 PM

[Propaganda]

[i][Unwired/i] is the 4th edition sourcebook for the Matrix, so that would be a good place to start.

Which bit about it don't you get, though?

[CorvusVlos]

[i][Unwired/i] is the 4th edition sourcebook for the Matrix, so that would be a good place to start.

Which bit about it don't you get, though?

The rules mechanics... I guess I don't understand how hacking works, in general... Should everything have Black Ice, or just major corporate installations? What is the attribute for hacking?

I'm sure a lot of this is in the section, I just get so bogged down in trying to visualize it all (Which is how I memorize rules), that I end up giving up before I can finish reading it...

[Prime Mover]

Did alittle digging and found this. Cut and pasted instead of linking. Its matrix mechanics behind the short story in SR4A. It might be helpful in getting that visualization. One thing I always do when I get a new game and might be helpful with the matrix is set aside some time on a game day and have the players put together one shot PC's and run them through a matrix encounter, working together to get the kinks out and get the rules down.

GAME, SET, AND MATCH

(Note that Aaron and I wrote the Game, Set, Match story together, and we actually did roll each test; the story was originally designed to be a demonstration of a hacker, a technomancer, and a rigger in a competition. However, the original story was 500 words, the final version ended up being 3000. So, some extra stuff was thrown in to make the story read better, and didn't reflect all the original actions... *sigh* that's what happens when you take creative license. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) But, for what it's worth, here's the (revised) mechanics behind the story.)

Hacking a Drone Example

BEHIND THE SCENES
Netcat: Initiative 9, 1 Initiative Pass, Resonance 7, Cracking Skill Group 4, Software (Threading) 5 (+2), Willpower 5, Command 2, Exploit 6, Scan 4, Stealth 6, one registered Rating 6 tank sprite with 5 tasks.
Slamm-0!: Initiative 11, 2 Initiative Passes, Computer 5, Electronic Warfare 5, Hacking (Exploit) 6 (+2), Sniffer 5, Spoof 5, Track 5.
Rigger: As Drone Rigger, p. 101, SR4A, add Cracking Group 3 and Analyze 5 & Nuke 3, in cold-sim VR, and already subscribed to the drone.
Security Drone: As MCT Fly-Spy, p. 350, SR4A. With Firewall 4 and running Analyze 3. The drone is operating in Hidden mode and has orders to patrol a specified route and report specific suspicious activity.

Combat Turn #1
Slamm-0! flashes the sun off his reflective shades towards the drone, trying to get it to report back to the rigger so he can begin a Trace User Test to track the connection.
Netcat uses a simple action to call her registered sprite. She uses another simple action to use her E-Sensing echo rolling Resonance + Perception getting 4 hits. This allows her to locate the drone’s node, and tells her that it has a System Rating 3 (E-Sensing Table, p. 146, Unwired).
The drone has seen something it doesn’t recognize. It makes a "common sense" test (p. 245, SR4A), Pilot + Response, getting no hits. It contacts the Rigger (a free action) for further instructions.
Slamm-0! attempts to intercept the communication between the drone and rigger in order to begin tracking the Rigger. He performs a Capture Wireless Signal Test (Electronic Warfare + Sniffer (3) Test) (p. 229, SR4A), getting 7 hits and succeeding. This gives him a way to track the rigger's node, so he can get his access ID. Yes, this would be unnecessary in modern TCP/IP, but the Matrix ain't yer daddy's communications protocol.

Combat Turn #2
Slamm-0! begins the extended Trace User (10, 1 IP) Test (p. 232, SR4A); he rolls Computer + Track Test and gets 4 hits.
Netcat threads her Exploit complex form (no action required), getting 6 hits on her Software + Resonance Test and choosing to use only 4. She resists the fading of 4P (Physical Damage because the new complex form rating is greater than her Resonance) with her Resonance + Willpower, getting 4 hits and resisting it completely. She then orders her Sprite to Assist Operation for her Stealth complex form, a simple action. Her Exploit Complex form is now 6 + 4, or 10, and her Stealth complex form will be 6 + Sprite Rating (6), or 12, starting in Combat Turn 3 and lasting 6 combat turns.
Slamm-0! continues the Trace User Test, getting 3 hits for a total of 7.

Combat Turn #3:
Slamm-0! continues the Trace User Test with 3 more hits, reaching the threshold of 10. He has successfully tracked the rigger’s connection—the rigger is in the campus security headquarters—and gotten the rigger’s access ID. Slamm-0! can now spoof orders to the drone.
Netcat starts hacking-on-the-fly for an Admin account: an Extended Hacking + Exploit (drone's Firewall + 6, Complex Action) Test. Netcat rolls Hacking + Exploit and gets 7 hits. The drone gets to make a test to detect the intrusion, an Extended Firewall + Analyze (Netcat's Stealth) Test. The drone gets 2 hits.
Slamm-0! uses the rigger’s access ID to spoof an order for the drone to change course. He makes an Opposed Hacking + Spoof Test against the drone’s Pilot + Firewall. He gets 5 hits; the drone gets 3 hits.

Combat Turn #4:
Slamm-0! waits to observe if the drone accepts the spoofed order. He also uses a free action to confirm his dinner reservations (what a romantic!).
Netcat continues her hacking-on-the-fly. She rolls 8 hits, which added to her original 7 hits achieves the threshold of 9. Netcat now has an Admin account on the drone. The drone rolls Firewall + Analyze, getting 4 hits, for a total of 6; it does not detect Netcat.
The drone begins to fly towards the Chemistry building.
Slamm-0! gloats.

Combat Turn #5:
Slamm-0! continues to gloat.
Netcat controls the drone directly, steering it toward her window (Complex Action). If she needs to make any Vehicle Tests, she will use Pilot Aircraft + Command (a dice pool of 1, since she doesn't actually have the skill).
The Rigger calls up a status report (a free action) and then decides to Jump Into the drone (a simple action). Because the rigger has jumped into the drone, there is no more outside access to control the drone; it is overridden by the jumped in rigger.
Slamm-0! orders the drone to resume flying towards his window. Nothing happens.
The Rigger analyzes the drone's node, making an Opposed Matrix Perception Test against Netcat's Hacking + Stealth. He gets 2 hits. Netcat gets 5 hits.

Combat Turn #6:
The Rigger starts moving the drone toward the security building (costing no action when jumped into a drone). He again attempts to locate Netcat. He gets 3 hits; Netcat gets 5.
Slamm-0! unloads his Sniffer program (Simple Action).
Netcat attempts to eliminate the Rigger’s Access ID from the drone’s accounts list. Unfortunately, the clever Rigger has programmed the drone not to accept Admin account deletions. Netcat and the Rigger are at a stalemate.
The Rigger accesses the Access Logs, attempting to figure out what’s going on.
Slamm-0! loads his Exploit program (Complex Action).

Combat Turn #7:
The Rigger scratches his virtual head and performs yet another Opposed Matrix Perception Test against Netcat's Hacking + Stealth. He gets 4 hits. Netcat gets 6 hits. (Makes you feel sorry for the guy, doesn’t it?)
Slamm-0! performs a Hacking + Exploit (drone’s Firewall, Complex Action) Extended Test. He gets 4 hits on his first roll, entering the drone with a normal user passcode. The drone rolls Firewall + Analyze, getting a lucky 6 hits; it detects Slamm-0! and an alert is triggered. This immediately has two effects: it creates a Restricted Alert (p. 238, SR4A) against Slamm-0! (it raises the drone’s Firewall rating against Slamm-0! by 4) and it immediately loads an MCT Bloodhound (p. 71, Unwired), rating 3, configured to look like a pack of husky puppies. The IC starts a Trace User (10, Complex Action) Extended Test.
Netcat deactivates the IC, using a Simple Action (since she has an Admin account, this is an allowed action; otherwise, she’d have to roll a Matrix Attack against it).
The Rigger sees Slamm-0!’s icon and attacks with a Nuke program (p. 111, Unwired). He rolls Cybercombat + Nuke, getting 2 hits. Slamm-0! defends with his Response + Firewall, gets 4 hits, and dodges the attack.
Slamm-0! performs a Redirect Trace action, making an Opposed Hacking + Spoof against the IC’s Computer + Track. He gets 3 Net hits, which would be added to the IC’s threshold for tracing him (if it weren’t for NetCat’s interference).

Combat Turn #8:
The IC goes pop.
The Rigger attacks again. He rolls Cybercombat + Nuke, getting 4 hits. Slamm-0! goes on Full Defense, and so resists with his System + Armor + Hacking, and gets 7 hits, dodging again.
Slamm-0! chose to use full defense this turn, so he can only trade witty banter with Netcat.
Netcat compiles a rating 6 Paladin Sprite. She rolls her Compiling + Resonance, and gets 4 hits. The Sprite rolls its Rating, and gets 3 hits. Netcat needs to resist Fading damage of 6S. She rolls her Resonance + Willpower, gets 4 hits, and takes 2S. She uses a free action to order the sprite to protect Slamm-0!
The Rigger attacks Slamm-0! again. This time, he scores one net hit. The base damage of the Nuke 3 is 3, plus 1 from the Net hit, so Slamm-0! resists the damage rolling his System + Armor. He gets 2 hits, and takes 1 damage. This reduces his Response by 1 point!

Combat Turn #9:
The Sprite uses its Castling Power to protect Slamm-0!.
The Rigger attacks again. The attack is redirected from Slamm-0! to the sprite, which rolls its Response + Firewall (total 16), and easily shrugs off the attack.
Slamm-0! loads up his own Nuke program (not wanting to hurt a campus security goon).
Netcat delays her action.
The Rigger attacks again. The attack is redirected from Slamm-0! to the sprite, which rolls its Response + Firewall, and easily shrugs off the attack.
Slamm-0! attacks the Rigger, with his own Nuke program. He scores 3 net hits, which added to his Rating 6 Nuke, make for 9 damage. The Rigger only resists 3 points of damage. His Response is reduced to 0, which reduces his System to 0, and he immediately loses all subscriptions, dumping him from the drone and causing 5S in dumpshock for him to resist with his Willpower + Biofeedback Filter.

Combat Turn #10:
Netcat alters the Rigger’s account to not allow movement commands. She then gloats (a Free Action).
Slamm-0! spoofs the drone using Netcat’s access ID—something he already knows. Using her access ID, he orders the drone to fly into his window. He gets 4 hits against the drone's 2 hits.
The drone flies into the window, ending the contest, and finally getting Slamm-0! a date with Netcat (more on that in future books).

[CeeJay]

The rules mechanics... I guess I don't understand how hacking works, in general... Should everything have Black Ice, or just major corporate installations? What is the attribute for hacking?

I'm sure a lot of this is in the section, I just get so bogged down in trying to visualize it all (Which is how I memorize rules), that I end up giving up before I can finish reading it...

Than start simple. Don't try to "visualize it all", that's a guaranteed headache (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
And not worth the effort, cause there is no big picture with the SR matrix rules...

Try to figure how simple matrix actions (like hacking a node, analyzing an icon etc.) are resolved. The rules for these things are pretty clearly spelled out in the book. If you still have specific questions come back and ask them here.
Then proceed to more complex things like cybercombat or the rules for agents and IC.

-CJ

[CorvusVlos]

Awesome... Well thanks to both of you, the example combat helped a TON, and I will try to read it in smaller doses.. Thanks CeeJay.

[sabs]

I read that story.. and I realize that Technomancers are completely broken compared to Hackers.
Netcat has a 12 stealth rating. That means that rigger or ic needs to get 12 net hits on an extended roll to see her.
Slamm-0! is maxed at 6 for stealth, like every other hacker in the universe.

That Paladin Sprite has 12 defense dice vs that nuke. The Rigger's nuke as 0 chance of affecting anything unless he happened to have 6 edge and get lucky on his roll.


On average Netcat is rolling +5-6 dice more than Slamm-0! can ever hope to roll, even if he's maxed out.

[Brazilian_Shinob...]

There is no attribute for hacking. Everything is Skill + Program. Unwired have alternative rules for this.

[deek]

Yes, take it really small at first.

Introduce a single node that allows the hacker to unlock a door or shut off a security camera. Don't think about it doing anything else, no IC, or spiders. Just let him get the mechanics down of hacking a node, searching for a specific item and then turning it off/on.

Introduce the need to hack a computer/commlink for a single piece of data. Something simply like an address, name or comm number.

Take it in small steps, don't complicate things and then over time, you can add more layers, defenses and dead ends. Trust me, you, your hacker and the rest of your players will be happy to experience the matrix in simple, finite doses.

[Abstruse]

One way I learned the SR2 modified/SR3 decking rules was flat out to create a decker. To update the terms for 4e, I basically made a character, then made a bunch of nodes slowly increasing in difficulty/complexity, then just ran by myself. I'd start slow, working my way up adding in extra rules as I went (giving myself karma for "overwatch runs" where I had a specific list of commands I had to run, trolling for paydata, playing pranks by taking over machines (having the break room vending machine spit out candy bars and flooding it with coffee, stuff like that), upgrading my deck, programming, etc.) Anytime I was bored and couldn't think of anything to do, I pulled up my hacker and ran a couple of nodes. Eventually, I blew an entire afternoon running the guy through a hack on Zurich Orbital that almost killed me, but by that point running a game with a matrix-based character was nothing...I was able to go through like clockwork no problems or major slow-downs with a hacker doing overwatch in full VR while the rest of the team were in the middle of a firefight.

It's just like learning anything else. Start small and simple, start adding complexities once you've got the rest down, and practice so it stays fresh in your mind.

[imperialus]

I read that story.. and I realize that Technomancers are completely broken compared to Hackers.
Netcat has a 12 stealth rating. That means that rigger or ic needs to get 12 net hits on an extended roll to see her.
Slamm-0! is maxed at 6 for stealth, like every other hacker in the universe.

That Paladin Sprite has 12 defense dice vs that nuke. The Rigger's nuke as 0 chance of affecting anything unless he happened to have 6 edge and get lucky on his roll.


On average Netcat is rolling +5-6 dice more than Slamm-0! can ever hope to roll, even if he's maxed out.

TMs need rediculously high attributes though to even approach that level of asskicking. It sort of covers the same ground as the Street Sam PhysAd debate.

[sabs]

TMs need rediculously high attributes though to even approach that level of asskicking. It sort of covers the same ground as the Street Sam PhysAd debate.

The Street sam doesn't need to spend 10-15k a month in software upgrades/patches to keep his 'stats' from degrading though.

Also looking at Netcat's stats. How exactly are they ridiculous? The only semi-ridiculous I see is that she's got a 7 resonance. So she has the equivalent of 1 Initiate Level.

Other than that she has fairly reasonable stats for a PC. As does Slamm-0!

[Wandering One]

The real killer for Techno's vs. hackers is that their stealth is high enough to hack an admin account on the fly with a rating 6 sprite hanging around, and then using other sprites for necessary combat activities, which a hacker also can't get support for. At best they get agents as a backup attack person.

Between that and threading, the two massive bonii for Technos, their numbers go from player character to plot device. They're the matrix equivalent of dragons. They're meant to be able to do whatever the hell they damn well please in the matrix. Unless the GM intends to program systems to challenge the Techno, which means any other hacker has a lickspittle chance of doing it at all, nevermind reasonably, they crush the net.

They're best left as GMPC's, personal opinion. Just like dragons.

[Cube]

If you love the magic rules and you want to learn how to run the Matrix, I'd make a Technomancer. Go through Abstruse's training program with it.

There's already a level of familiarity there, so that'll make the transition that much easier.

[Sengir]

That means that rigger or ic needs to get 12 net hits on an extended roll to see her.

...the resident virtuakinetic advisor, however, only needs a mere three hits to get the intruder's matrix signature. Yep, going completely overboard with something just because you can always carries consequences.

[Saint Sithney]

Also looking at Netcat's stats. How exactly are they ridiculous? The only semi-ridiculous I see is that she's got a 7 resonance. So she has the equivalent of 1 Initiate Level.

Actually 7 Res means a Submersion grade between 1 and 7. TMs have much more incentive to increase Submersion before they mess with upping their Resonance.

I personally find TMs turn out much closer to baseline when you use karmagen. Those high-level CFs are spendy as hell and being able to emulate a world of cracked skillsofts is less of an issue when skills aren't at such a premium from the start.

[AStarshipforAnts]

I feel like an utter idiot for asking this, but I've had two different GMs ruling differently on this subject and I'm a little confused. The Electronics and Cracking skill groups are listed as having the Logic attribute connected to them. But, hackers only roll their skill level + program rating for base hacking, correct? In the example Slamm-O! is getting seven successes by rolling 11 dice: 5 for programs and 6 for hacking. Do hackers add logic to their dicepool or not?

[Dumori]

No hackers don't add logic to there dice pool.

[AStarshipforAnts]

Thank you.

Edit: Although, this begs the question of why exactly those skills were even given an attached attribute in the first place, if it isn't used.

This post has been edited by AStarshipforAnts: Jun 9 2010, 08:20 PM

[Ryu]

The thread in my sig might help. (shameless plug, I know)

[Saint Sithney]

There are optional rules to put Logic back into play for hackers, such as limiting successes to an amount equal to Logic. I personally like using Logic as a teamwork-style variable DP bonus to give cleverness its due.

Anyone else think the lack of cyber in Slamm-0! is strange?

[tagz]

Methinks it's for something to happen to his character in the future. Something that cyber would interfere with.
[/conspiracy theory]

[sabs]

He gets his date with Netcat. They get all Physical and he awakens as a technomancer? Because the writers realize that hackers suck (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Ryu]

I believe there are no augmentations in the main book that would make a difference, and that stuff from the expansions was avoided.

[AStarshipforAnts]

There are optional rules to put Logic back into play for hackers, such as limiting successes to an amount equal to Logic. I personally like using Logic as a teamwork-style variable DP bonus to give cleverness its due.

Anyone else think the lack of cyber in Slamm-0! is strange?

That makes a lot of sense, and I like that rule.

No, I also found the lack of cyber in Slamm-O! odd, especially the lack of cyber to improve his initiative and initiative pass number.