CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[Method]

Jason: Thanks for the info.

[lehesu]

I do wonder, however, if this accounting person was sent by Topps to clean house or if CGL hired her on their own initiative...

[Dread Moores]

I hope CGL will take this opportunity to really devote the resources necessary to make Shadowrun every bit the lean, mean, polished game that Battletech has been.

If only the rules for Battletech were actually lean and mean. They've done a great job with the metaplot and the setting in recent years, but that is one area where Total Warfare failed badly for my tastes. It contributed horrifically to rules bloat, when instead so much of it needed to be cut down.

The same holds true for SR for me as well.

Edit: That said, I guess I'm glad CGL continues with the games. I do enjoy the fluff material BT has presented, as well as some of the recent SR material. But outside of all of this, I've simply decided that I've concentrated entirely too much on these two games exclusively for the last decade. It's been fun actually exploring other games again.

[MindandPen]

I want to go over the CGL Press Release piece at a time:

Catalyst Game Labs License Extension Imminent

So nothing has been signed, and this is only an extension to the current license, not a new license.

After weeks of discussion, The Topps Company and Catalyst Game Labs are both pleased to announce that a license extension to the popular intellectual properties of BattleTech and Shadowrun is under final review. All terms have been agreed upon, and the paperwork should be ready for signatures very soon.

Lawyers are reviewing to make sure no one added anything to this at the last minute. This is VERY interesting. Topps is in the position of power. They own the license, they know what has been up. Having been in negotiations like this before, I read it to be that Topps has gone to CGL, said "this is the deal, you better live up to it". CGL is going to sign it, Topps will look at what they signed to make sure it is correct, then they will sign it. It is not a very friendly move based on this. It sounds like Topps doesn't want to break someone new in right now.

In the meantime, Catalyst Game Labs continues to operate as manager for the two brands under the operations extension allowed by their original license.

CGL is still operating under the original terms while Topps figures out exactly how much rope to give CGL.

“Working with The Topps Company continues to be a pleasure,” said Randall Bills, Catalyst’s Managing Developer. “We feel we are improving relations every day.”

Translation: Please Topps, don't take the license away, we'll do what you want, how far do we have to bend over?

Tina Trenkler, The Topps Company manager overseeing Catalyst’s operations, said, “We are very happy to have Catalyst continue to be involved with these important licenses and are fully supportive in helping them regain their footing.”

Translation: We have LLC and CGL's balls in a Testicle Lock Box. If they breathe wrong, we crush them. We want to be paid. We want what LLC owes us to be paid, so we'll keep CGL alive long enough to pay us back. If they behave themselves we might let them continue to exist after we get our money back, assuming they don't try and fuck us over again.

Catalyst Game Labs recently released an historical sourcebook for BattleTech, Operation Klondike, which is being received as one of their best titles in the last year, and will be shortly releasing for print publication Technical Readout: 3085 for BattleTech, as well as Corporate Guide and the much-anticipated Sixth World Almanac for Shadowrun.

Randall does not know that Corporate Guide has already been released, he isn't aware of Shadowrun, he wants to only save his beloved Battletech.


Anyone see where I read this wrong?

-M&P

[lehesu]

If only the rules for Battletech were actually lean and mean. They've done a great job with the metaplot and the setting in recent years, but that is one area where Total Warfare failed badly for my tastes. It contributed horrifically to rules bloat, when instead so much of it needed to be cut down.

The same holds true for SR for me as well.

Edit: That said, I guess I'm glad CGL continues with the games. I do enjoy the fluff material BT has presented, as well as some of the recent SR material. But outside of all of this, I've simply decided that I've concentrated entirely too much on these two games exclusively for the last decade. It's been fun actually exploring other games again.

That's fair. Total Warfare, perhaps because of its toolbox approach, jams in perhaps too many tables and ancillary rules. The core rules themselves are no different than previous versions, really, but the exhaustive way that they are presented makes them a great deal more daunting.

To be honest, I'm really interested to see how much support the CBT RPG gets. War games and RPGs are different beasts and it will be interesting to see if the darling franchise's RPG stacks up.

[Method]

Randall does not know that Corporate Guide has already been released, he isn't aware of Shadowrun, he wants to only save his beloved Battletech.

Not to pick nits, but Corp Guide has not been released in print as of yet.

[lehesu]

M&P: Or perhaps CGL is genuinely contrite and has shown a strong willingness to act on their own initiative to makes things right. Of course, that answer might be too simple to believe...

"releasing for print publication" may mean "in print in store so people can buy it". Operation Klondike has already streeted. The others have not. Probably not malicious ignorance on the part of RNB in this case.

It may be popular to believe that CGL is walking on millimeter thin ice here (this is the speculation thread, afterall) and it is true that they will be under some degree of scrutiny. But I think it is at least as probable that Topps has seen the enormous commercial successes achieved by CGL over the years and is willing to stick to their proven guns over a rough patch.

[MindandPen]

Not to pick nits, but Corp Guide has not been released in print as of yet.

I can accept that, depending on how tightly he wants to parse his words. I am willing to believe that he is being very careful with what he says, and does not want to imply a street date.

I still think he likes BT over SR.

-M&P

[LurkerOutThere]

Wow mind and pen that's some pretty good spin you got on those words.


For weeks people have been going on and on about how no statement that the license was being renewed was the surest sign ever that the license wasn't going to be renewed. Now there is notification, not ironclad, but pretty good notification that the extension is coming and people look for ways to have it be negative. As others have said Bills statement was pretty accurate, none of those books have seen print release yet.

[MindandPen]

M&P: Or perhaps CGL is genuinely contrite and has shown a strong willingness to act on their own initiative to makes things right. Of course, that answer might be too simple to believe...

Of that I have no doubt. While I have no proof that Topps "went medieval" on CGL, I imagine that they were quite pointed in expressing their displeasure with the financial "issues". Acting on their own willingness and acting out of necessity are different things, but they will look the same to an outsider. Since we do not know what the senior management of IMR/CGL truly think or believe, either is a possibility. The end result is that they have apparently made structural changes.

You may have missed some of my earlier posts where I pointed out that if they actually did make significant structural changes, and convinced Topps that they could right their ship, that my guess was that Topps would let them keep the license as it would be, for Topps, the most economical in the short run and the best chance they have at recouping any lost monies they are owed.

It would appear that IMR/CGL has managed to pull this off. It does not, however, change the probable reality that Topps is keeping IMR/CGL on a very tight leash. Having worked with intellectual property licensing before, I can tell you that if you even think you've been burned, you tend to keep a close eye on things moving forward until that trust is rebuilt.

"releasing for print publication" may mean "in print in store so people can buy it". Operation Klondike has already streeted. The others have not. Probably not malicious ignorance on the part of RNB in this case.

True. And it may not even be malicisous. It has been indicated by others that he favors BT. He just may not have known. However, as this is a SR discussion, I thought it interesting.

It may be popular to believe that CGL is walking on millimeter thin ice here (this is the speculation thread, afterall) and it is true that they will be under some degree of scrutiny. But I think it is at least as probable that Topps has seen the enormous commercial successes achieved by CGL over the years and is willing to stick to their proven guns over a rough patch.

I think it is just as likely that Topps has seen the financial success of the Shadowrun License, seen the financial issues with CGL, and made the decision that, for now, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't. If they pull the license, odds are IMR/CGL dies. If they feel they are owed money from IMR/CGL, pulling the license does not get them paid. Keeping the license with IMR/CGL gets them paid. The logic is simple, if they think IMR/CGL can be turned around, at least enough to pay them, then they will give them a little rope. If IMR/CGL does not honor their new contract in any way, I imagine Topps will fry them.

-M&P

[MindandPen]

Wow mind and pen that's some pretty good spin you got on those words.

Thank you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I would have thought this was obvious, but it was a piece of dark humor. Spin on the announcement to frame it in a certain light.

For weeks people have been going on and on about how no statement that the license was being renewed was the surest sign ever that the license wasn't going to be renewed. Now there is notification, not ironclad sure but pretty good notification that the extension is coming and people look for ways to have it be negative. As others have stead Bills statement was pretty accurate, none of those books have seen print release yet.

See above and my many prior posts. I never doubted that IMR/CGL would keep the license. The financial issues from LLC and the money they owe Topps is to much for Topps to kill them off if there is a chance they can repay what they owe. It is why the preference, in general, is for Chapter 13 bankruptcy over Chapter 7 - you would rather get your money back. The moral and ethical issues are another matter, as are the long term issues for LLC if the draws we were shown are correct.

-M&P

[kzt]

As a player of SR since the beginning, even with the terrible rules that were SR1, I can honestly say that the above quote bums me out.

I remember standing up at the SR seminar the year after SR1 was released and asking where they got their examples in the game from, as they were statistically absurd. The fanboys, to put it mildly, didn't completely agree, they all seemed to be convinced SR1 was the most perfect game ever made.

I abandoned SR until SR3 came out.

[LurkerOutThere]

Question, where do people get the assumption that IMR owes Topps money or that it's of a figure that would be a figure big enough to actually cause Topps to keep IMR around to recoup their losses? Jennifer has stated that she lef tin aprt over not reporting foreign royalties, But I believe someone at least floated that thsoe royalties had never been reported. What is the likelyhood that these royalties wern't in fact part of the contracts? Yes I realize that is rather far fetched but that's the only signifigant source of money that IMR might owe Topps going into this thing.

[BlueMax]

I remember standing up at the SR seminar the year after SR1 was released and asking where they got their examples in the game from, as they were statistically absurd. The fanboys, to put it mildly, didn't completely agree, they all seemed to be convinced SR1 was the most perfect game ever made.

I abandoned SR until SR3 came out.

Funny, I think SR2 was the pick of the litter rules wise.

I mean , at least a Juggernaut was still a Juggernaut. Now we got boys taking them out with hunting knives...


BlueMax

[MindandPen]

Not to pick nits

Isn't that the national sport of Dumpshock?

-M&P

[BlueMax]

Isn't that the national sport of Dumpshock?

-M&P

No. That was 2009. There are two national sports now

* Riding High and Mighty
* Beating the dead horse


Which works well for me, as my players say I can excel at both.

BlueMax

[MindandPen]

Question, where do people get the assumption that IMR owes Topps money or that it's of a figure that would be a figure big enough to actually cause Topps to keep IMR around to recoup their losses? Jennifer has stated that she lef tin aprt over not reporting foreign royalties, But I believe someone at least floated that thsoe royalties had never been reported. What is the likelyhood that these royalties wern't in fact part of the contracts? Yes I realize that is rather far fetched but that's the only signifigant source of money that IMR might owe Topps going into this thing.

For me, there are two reasons I came to that conclusion.

1. The foreign royalties you mentioned
   If they owe for foreign royalties, that could be significant. Just because no one ever reported them doesn't mean that they weren't supposed to be reported.
2. The nature of licensing deals
   Most licensing deals combine both a per unit fee and a percentage of revenue. I have not seen the BT/SR license, so I can not definitively say, but if portion of revenue is a part, then the LLC draws could affect the revenue reporting. If Topps is not confident in the books, then they may wait and keep IMR/CGL alive until they can be sure of what those numbers should be.

-M&P

[kzt]

Question, where do people get the assumption that IMR owes Topps money or that it's of a figure that would be a figure big enough to actually cause Topps to keep IMR around to recoup their losses?

There are suggestions that not only were multiple years of many $10Ks worth of convention sales not reported to Topps, they were not reported to the IRS and state sales tax authorities. Who knows?

[phillosopherp]

Question, where do people get the assumption that IMR owes Topps money or that it's of a figure that would be a figure big enough to actually cause Topps to keep IMR around to recoup their losses? Jennifer has stated that she lef tin aprt over not reporting foreign royalties, But I believe someone at least floated that thsoe royalties had never been reported. What is the likelyhood that these royalties wern't in fact part of the contracts? Yes I realize that is rather far fetched but that's the only signifigant source of money that IMR might owe Topps going into this thing.

Question why is it that no matter what you defend this company? Do you work for them, contract for them, or anything of the sort? Of course not because then you would probably not be defending them because you wouldn't have been paid on time, or at all.

Just the royalties you bring up are extremely likely not small and last I checked if you own an IP all money is something you have to collect with impunity or you establish precedent for others to use the IP without paying you. And if you realize that something is far fetched why bring it up to defend a company that has shown such blatant issues?

[Shinobi Killfist]

Funny, I think SR2 was the pick of the litter rules wise.

I mean , at least a Juggernaut was still a Juggernaut. Now we got boys taking them out with hunting knives...


BlueMax

I'm a SR2 person as well. SR3 was close enough that it worked for me but the butchery of the skills or more specifically the weapon skills into separate skills bothered me and picking your own damage level for your spells on the fly I did not like as well. All of the systems had and have there problems, for me and how we gamed SR2s problems fell more into the tell your player to stop being a dick category which we found easier to deal with.(grounding spells through your F1 spirits as an example)

[Saint Sithney]

As a player of SR since the beginning, even with the terrible rules that were SR1, I can honestly say that the above quote bums me out.

Yeah, that is some tragic shit to say. I guess it's an addict's remedy, like an alcoholic who feels he can't have a drop of booze lest he go into full remission.

I won't say that's not a coward's move, but I can't claim any sort of superiority in that department.

[MindandPen]

One other interesting tidbit that I had to confirm.

Tina Trenkler, The Topps Company manager overseeing Catalyst’s operations, ...

If this is the same Tina Trenkler on LinkedIn, then she is the VP of Entertainment Finance & Operations.

Speculation: This could suggest that Topps is getting involved to some degree in operational management at Catalyst.
BIG Speculation: It could also be a precursor to bringing the entire operation in-house.

-M&P

[urgru]

So nothing has been signed, and this is only an extension to the current license, not a new license.

Whether it's a new license or a revision of the previous contract doesn't really matter. IMR's control over the properties will be extended for some undefined period of time. The wording seems fair to me. As for discussing it before the ink is dry, see below.

Lawyers are reviewing to make sure no one added anything to this at the last minute. This is VERY interesting. Topps is in the position of power. They own the license, they know what has been up. Having been in negotiations like this before, I read it to be that Topps has gone to CGL, said "this is the deal, you better live up to it". CGL is going to sign it, Topps will look at what they signed to make sure it is correct, then they will sign it. It is not a very friendly move based on this. It sounds like Topps doesn't want to break someone new in right now.

I read this differently. I imagine the business people sat down and hammered out a final deal and that it was promptly sent off to Topps' counsel to be turned into a contract. That's not an instantaneous process, though, and IMR has a hearing on Friday. It's really, really helpful for them to have this in public ASAP. If I were Topps and I felt IMR was in the best position to monetize my properties (or that I needed to help them limp along for awhile so I could get the royalties I'm owed), I'd also want an announcement as soon as terms were settled to help stave off the bankruptcy filing. If not for the lawsuit, we'd probably not have heard about this b/f it was final.

CGL is still operating under the original terms while Topps figures out exactly how much rope to give CGL.

Jason said a few threads back that the license expired on or around June 1, so they've been operating under an extension provided for in the original contract for awhile now. I'm not an IP wheeler/dealer, but I understand that savings clauses that allow things to continue as normal while good faith re-up negotiations take place are pretty common. If anything, that Catalyst wasn't told to stand down as soon as the license expired and while others bid for the licenses was a sign that Catalyst has/had a decent chance to keep the properties.

Translation: We have LLC and CGL's balls in a Testicle Lock Box. If they breathe wrong, we crush them. We want to be paid. We want what LLC owes us to be paid, so we'll keep CGL alive long enough to pay us back. If they behave themselves we might let them continue to exist after we get our money back, assuming they don't try and fuck us over again.

I'm intrigued by this part of the PR. Someone on Frank's board noted that the Topps "manager" quoted is actually the VP of Operations. That she's "overseeing Catalyst's operations" sounds intense. There may be some parallel management going on at the moment?

@Edit: LinkedIn says she's VP of Entertainment Finance & Operation. I'd bet she's the one who's been doing the dealing for Topps. Former Wizards of the Coast person (Seattle), previously an EVP with a Hidden City (Seattle). The freelancer letter's bit about "heavyweights" who could grease the skids with Topps makes A LOT more sense now. She would know a lot of the same WA-based people as Loren and Randall.

Randall does not know that Corporate Guide has already been released, he isn't aware of Shadowrun, he wants to only save his beloved Battletech.

Important as we think we are, the PR is really directed to retailers who need to know that IMR is a going operation so they continue tp stock product. There's not been a print release of Corporate Guide. Given the target audience, the language seems right to me.

[Cardul]

Or, it could just be that she is the VP over the section that keeps track of what is going on with Topps licensed IP.
I mean, Topps should know better then to think about trying to buy out a game company. They already learned they were clue-less on operating one in the past. As in: their micro-managing and second guessing the people in the
company drove it into the ground, and into un-profitability as they fired most of the staff, leaving only 2 managers
with no-one else there.

[Cthulhudreams]

She clearly has the credibility to manage it in house. I wonder what the length of this license extension is. If it's 6 months or something then I'd be suspicious that M&P is correct, though the Bella Sara _ M:TG games are WAY bigger than SR will ever be, unless they want to flog some merch.