CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[emouse]

No, it's just a different sort of tax evasion. As Coleman's personal house is his house, and not the companys house, and it's not an excluded good, someone is liable for taxation - now as it's almost certainly a taxable benefit, it IS income tax evasion as he should have reported it

Though, it's my understanding that his prior house did become Catalyst's house, or is where Catalyst was operating out of, which may have been part of his reason or excuse for moving.

However, I don't remember where I saw Catalyst taking over his old place as an office. I could be mistaken.

[Caadium]

Just a point of information here. MegaMek is the java program that allows you to play Battletech on the computer. MekWars is a campaign "wrapper" around the MegaMek app.

You are correct. Sorry for not being more specific.

[Cthulhudreams]

Though, it's my understanding that his prior house did become Catalyst's house, or is where Catalyst was operating out of, which may have been part of his reason or excuse for moving.

However, I don't remember where I saw Catalyst taking over his old place as an office. I could be mistaken.

Wait, so we're really defending purchasing the house with company money as a legimate business expense approved by the business and/or business owners? If so, how could he have POSSIBLY comingled funds then?

[emouse]

Wait, so we're really defending purchasing the house with company money as a legimate business expense approved by the business and/or business owners? If so, how could he have POSSIBLY comingled funds then?

I'm not defending it. It just raises its own set of issues, and I'm not even sure I'm correct. It could be I'm mistaking some reference that was just using LLC's address as a contact when CGL was first starting up, and that everyone was just operating out of their own homes. Even now I don't really know if CGL operates out of a central location or what.

Even if I'm right, it's possible that there was absolutely no agreement to provide any sort of reimbursement. Based on the reaction from at least one of the people with access to financial information, I would guess that is the case. In other words, whatever the status of the previous home is, any funds spent on the new home would have still been inappropriate.

[Kid Chameleon]

Compounded in all this is the fact of the "unreported convention sales."

AFAIK, that's a rumor or accusation, not a fact.

[Furluge]

To me, that Tiger Eyes was asked to defraud Topps is the single most damning piece of evidence in this entire thread. It has never been addressed by Coleman and Company. It is the statement I'd most appreciate clarification on!
Was the income ever properly reported? What about to the IRS?

I've got to be honest, I question how much of that is true, but then again I'm of the opinion that everyone involved is twisting the truth to some extent, and I have no way to know who's being the most honest. And even if they are being honest it's not a guarantee they're telling the truth as people's point of views can alter perception of anything immensely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[Cthulhudreams]

I'm not defending it. It just raises its own set of issues, and I'm not even sure I'm correct. It could be I'm mistaking some reference that was just using LLC's address as a contact when CGL was first starting up, and that everyone was just operating out of their own homes. Even now I don't really know if CGL operates out of a central location or what.

Even if I'm right, it's possible that there was absolutely no agreement to provide any sort of reimbursement. Based on the reaction from at least one of the people with access to financial information, I would guess that is the case. In other words, whatever the status of the previous home is, any funds spent on the new home would have still been inappropriate.

No look, it's one of these four scenarios

A) He defrauded the Company

B) He defrauded the Government

C) Building himself the mansion was legitmate business expense signed off by the relevant business stakeholders.

D) He didn't use company funds for bulding the house?

Do you think it was A, B, C or D?

I've got to be honest, I question how much of that is true, but then again I'm of the opinion that everyone involved is twisting the truth to some extent, and I have no way to know who's being the most honest. And even if they are being honest it's not a guarantee they're telling the truth as people's point of views can alter perception of anything immensely. frown.gif

Just to be clear, do you mean that Tiger Eyes is lying and that she wasn't asked by by either Coleman or Bills to falisfy royalty reports?

[Saint Sithney]

Just to be clear, do you mean that Tiger Eyes is lying and that she wasn't asked by by either Coleman or Bills to falisfy royalty reports?

Yeah, they just refused to publish her Netcat & Slamm-0 romance novel and she flipped out, quit and then started spreading these malicious rumors. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[nemafow]

Netcat & Slamm-0 romance novel

Must. See.

[Cheops]

AFAIK, that's a rumor or accusation, not a fact.

Yes. Thanks for pointing that out. The only person who has claimed that so far was Frank but since it is out there it is something that Topps would be silly to overlook. If auditors are anything, they are thorough.

[Cheops]

Damn. Heavy trigger finger.

[deek]

Am I a horrible person to compartmentalize my gaming purchasing decisions? Meaning, I could kind of care less what mismanagement, corruption or legal matters CEOs, Presidents and management is involved in when it comes to buying a game book. Hell, I could care less about the moral and ethics of the freelancers, line developers and other employees, when it comes to making my decision to purchase a book.

I don't think that makes me immoral or supporting their bad habits, just the same that buying a band's CD doesn't mean I support their alcohol or drug abuse...

[Endroren]

Am I a horrible person to compartmentalize my gaming purchasing decisions? Meaning, I could kind of care less what mismanagement, corruption or legal matters CEOs, Presidents and management is involved in when it comes to buying a game book. Hell, I could care less about the moral and ethics of the freelancers, line developers and other employees, when it comes to making my decision to purchase a book.

I don't think that makes me immoral or supporting their bad habits, just the same that buying a band's CD doesn't mean I support their alcohol or drug abuse...

Here is a hypothetical for you:

I'm a record producer.
I get a band to make a recording. I don't pay the band.
I get a recording studio to record it. I don't pay the recording studio.
I get a distributor to print and distribute the album. I don't pay the distributor.
I take the profits from the sale of the album and buy a yacht.

Is it okay for you to buy a copy of the album? Should you buy more music from this producer?

For me personally, the challenge here isn't what to do in this situation when this is all true. The challenge is, what do you do in this situation when you have little hard evidence proving any of this? It becomes a gamble.

If you DON'T buy the album and it's not true (or less true than it is being presented), you risk harming people undeservedly.

On the other hand, if you DO buy the album and it IS true, you've just rewarded the corrupt record producer and you encourage him to continue with the same behavior in the future.

THAT is the real dilemma.

[hermit]

I'm a record producer.
I get a band to make a recording. I don't pay the band.
I get a recording studio to record it. I don't pay the recording studio.
I get a distributor to print and distribute the album. I don't pay the distributor.
I take the profits from the sale of the album and buy a yacht.

Is it okay for you to buy a copy of the album? Should you buy more music from this producer?

There are people who buy music? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

And that dilemma only is one if you buy on the basis of ethics. Ifyou buy a product because you want a product, then whether or not someone in the company producing it is a world class dick is irrelevant.

[Endroren]

There are people who buy music? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

And that dilemma only is one if you buy on the basis of ethics. Ifyou buy a product because you want a product, then whether or not someone in the company producing it is a world class dick is irrelevant.

I'm talking about people who DO buy on ethics. That audience (which seems to include a fair number of folks here) is faced with an entirely different dilemma - for them they already know that "no, you don't buy from the person in my example" but they face an additional dilemma - the one I outlined in my post. How to choose when the evidence is incomplete.

[Kid Chameleon]

I have to say, even if every last nasty thing that is rumored is true regarding CGL, I still find the Chinese government to be more repulsive and I really don't have the effort to go out of my way to try and ensure everything I buy is Chinese manufacturing free. I don't even know if it is possible in today's economy.

[Adam]

I have to say, even if every last nasty thing that is rumored is true regarding CGL, I still find the Chinese government to be more repulsive and I really don't have the effort to go out of my way to try and ensure everything I buy is Chinese manufacturing free. I don't even know if it is possible in today's economy.

BT Box Set, double-zinger!

[Kid Chameleon]

BT Box Set, double-zinger!

I know, I think Randall was going to cry every time we brought up poor little Chinese girls.

[Endroren]

I have to say, even if every last nasty thing that is rumored is true regarding CGL, I still find the Chinese government to be more repulsive and I really don't have the effort to go out of my way to try and ensure everything I buy is Chinese manufacturing free. I don't even know if it is possible in today's economy.

Watch carefully as I, yet again, refuse to debate whether or not people SHOULD try to buy based on their ethics, and focus again on the fact that some people here DO buy on ethics and these people are faced with the dilemma I outlined in my original post.

I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm here to speculate about what the "right choice" is in this situation for people who already care about this sort of thing.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Am I a horrible person to compartmentalize my gaming purchasing decisions? Meaning, I could kind of care less what mismanagement, corruption or legal matters CEOs, Presidents and management is involved in when it comes to buying a game book. Hell, I could care less about the moral and ethics of the freelancers, line developers and other employees, when it comes to making my decision to purchase a book.

I don't think that makes me immoral or supporting their bad habits, just the same that buying a band's CD doesn't mean I support their alcohol or drug abuse...

It varies for me at least. Take Roman Polanski, he got a girl drunk, drugged and when that still wasn't enough forcibly raped a 13 year old. I won't see any of his movies, and while my memory is spotty I avoid to a lesser degree the movies of his recent Hollywood support crew.

In this case we got.

Paying the freelancers late. I do not think there is a we were never going to pay them situation just they are consistently and horrible late on payment. What else, um possible tax evasion and possible minor dishonesty to topps, and a lot of people not really understanding the type of corporation that they have.

So a bunch of allegedly and paying people late. Yeah that doesn't even blip on my radar yet.

[deek]

I feel that the reality is most, if not all businesses, have shorted ethics at some point in time. Its just that some are a lot better at covering it up. So, its not a matter of if, its really when does a business crap on itself enough to push consumers away.

I think for people that care about "this" sort of thing the only option you have is to organize and be vocal, as well as not purchase. But, I don't think enough people care that much to do actually follow through with it. But, I could be wrong.

[Endroren]

Paying the freelancers late. I do not think there is a we were never going to pay them situation just they are consistently and horrible late on payment. What else, um possible tax evasion and possible minor dishonesty to topps, and a lot of people not really understanding the type of corporation that they have.

So a bunch of allegedly and paying people late. Yeah that doesn't even blip on my radar yet.

That's what _you_ see. A lot of other people see something totally different. In some cases more - in other cases less.

I really don't intend to argue whether what may or may not have happened at CGL was bad enough to warrant not buying from them - there are too many opinions and precious few facts. We've done that for 8 threads now.

I'm mainly curious about how other people think about this - do you react to the unproven situation and risk harming the innocent? Or do you ignore it and risk rewarding the guilty?

I feel that the reality is most, if not all businesses, have shorted ethics at some point in time. Its just that some are a lot better at covering it up. So, its not a matter of if, its really when does a business crap on itself enough to push consumers away.

I think you're too cynical. I think most small business do things in an honest, fair, and forthright manner. I don't think most businesses skirt the laws or treat the people they work with badly. I think that's the exception - not the rule. That's just my personal experience, having worked with and for many small businesses over the past 20 years.

[Taharqa]

I think the people who need to make their own moral/ethical/professional decisions now are not the players and fans, but the freelancers. The freelancer's decision has to be whether they are willing to continue working (or start working) with CGL given the payment delays and past history. I think the true test of CGL's future survival will rest with its ability to convince freelancers that they have made changes so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. I am not just talking about current freelancers, but future potential freelancers as well. I am no expert on the RPG industry, and I know the consensus seems to be that freelancers get treated like shit everywhere, but I find it hard to believe that CGL hasn't blown some serious trust in that community at this point, which will have repercussions. Personally, I am hoping that those bridges get rebuilt and CGL rights the ship, so I can continue to buy their products and given that I think buying their products will increase the chance that freelancers get paid sooner, the last thing I would do is boycott them.

[deek]

Yeah, I very well may be too cynical. But, people are, well...human. I'm not saying every business has an owner that steals money (allegedly) or doesn't pay its workers, but there are skeletons in everyone's closet. Granted, there is a difference between business ethics and moral ethics, but I have a hard time believing that if someone makes purchase decisions based on business ethics, why you would stop short of moral ethics as well.

Personally, there's nothing that CGL has done or will do that will affect whether I buy a book from them or not. And if the license goes elsewhere, those same feelings apply...

[BlueMax]

I think the people who need to make their own moral/ethical/professional decisions now are not the players and fans, but the freelancers. The freelancer's decision has to be whether they are willing to continue working (or start working) with CGL given the payment delays and past history. I think the true test of CGL's future survival will rest with its ability to convince freelancers that they have made changes so that this sort of thing doesn't happen again. I am not just talking about current freelancers, but future potential freelancers as well. I am no expert on the RPG industry, and I know the consensus seems to be that freelancers get treated like shit everywhere, but I find it hard to believe that CGL hasn't blown some serious trust in that community at this point, which will have repercussions. Personally, I am hoping that those bridges get rebuilt and CGL rights the ship, so I can continue to buy their products and given that I think buying their products will increase the chance that freelancers get paid sooner, the last thing I would do is boycott them.

I wanted to just post "ditto" but felt it would be misconstrued. The post puts into words my position on the subject.

BlueMax