CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[otakusensei]

Luckily we're now in a pretty good spot, thanks to a lot of folks, including Frank Trollman. It seems that he's been sending in the 'correct numbers' to Topps. Since the numbers he sent in matched with the ones we gave Topps, it only helped our case with them.

If the numbers Frank quoted are right, and Topps knows their right, I don't think IMR is going to enjoy any cases they have upcoming.

[Ancient History]

Not a lot more to add. He had someone feeding him the numbers from our books, I would guess he was assuming we'd lie to Topps. When we gave them the straight picture and he gave them the same info, it really helped our rep feel good about us being forthright with what mistakes had been made, where we were and where we are going. Despite what some of the rumors may say, we are operating on a (somewhat) normal production schedule, not some last-minute cash grab. We're in a hole we dug ourselves into, but we are on our way to climbing out. Now go enjoy some of my lovely writing in 6WA. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I love how you say "we."

[Kid Chameleon]

I love how you say "we."

Thou just didn't fit as well. Besides, I am part of IMR and CGL.

[Ancient History]

Yeah, but as far as I'm aware the biggest mistake the other owners made was in trusting the Colemans (and possibly the Billses). It's not like you personally drew money from the piggy bank when you weren't supposed to, didn't pay freelancers and printers, or voted to not pay foreign royalties to Topps.

[Kid Chameleon]

Yeah, but as far as I'm aware the biggest mistake the other owners made was in trusting the Colemans (and possibly the Billses). It's not like you personally drew money from the piggy bank when you weren't supposed to, didn't pay freelancers and printers, or voted to not pay foreign royalties to Topps.

True, but we certainly could have been more involved and kept an eye on things. I can't really think I'm completely blameless if I could have prevented some of it. Now I have to work even harder to help fix it. It sucks that my friends and coworkers were getting shorted for so long when they didn't need to.

[Ancient History]

You could also have checked to make sure the paperwork for the owners was filed correctly. No offense, but there comes a point where it's less closing-the-barn-door-after-the-houses-have-left and more let's-buy-some-more-gold-chain.

[Furluge]

If they had signed on for three years, don't you think it would have said so? This is basically backing their current situation, operating for a short term beyond the original agreed to period, with a contract. Standard practice. It is not a long term contract, as Randall stated that was still under negotiation.

So the license is still in play. The fact that Topps isn't willing to sign a three year yet is just a stronger sign that IMR's position might not be that great. But a collapsing IMR at the bargaining table is better for Topps than a corpse.

Why? As I understand it CGL/IMR didn't say how long the license was last time. Why would they change that policy now? To appease their detractors? There's no smart reason to give a time frame because no matter what they say their supporters are going to take this as positive news and their detractors are going to take it as negative news. A specific time frame is not going to change the reaction each person has, so why give their detractors more fodder? I find it much more likely that information would be kept quiet and possibly used at the upcoming trial if it looks advantageous to CGL/IMR to release that information at that time.

And saying the license is still in play is kind of like saying air pressure is still in play on planet earth. The license not being in play is not going to happen because Topps probably will never sell the rights outright, so there will always be a license which has terms of usage that CGL/IMR, or their replacements, are always going to be subject to.

[Kid Chameleon]

You could also have checked to make sure the paperwork for the owners was filed correctly. No offense, but there comes a point where it's less closing-the-barn-door-after-the-houses-have-left and more let's-buy-some-more-gold-chain.

I'm not quite familiar with that last idiom....

[Ancient History]

Sorry, we had a thread a couple days or weeks back with a reference to I'm Gonna Get You Sucka; it came back to me. Suffice it to say that while I have no say in the matter or full understanding of the financial details, I think continuing to work with the Colemans and Billses is not the wisest decision in the world, and that even if it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass...well, the continued trust in them is just beyond me.

[BlueMax]

Sorry, we had a thread a couple days or weeks back with a reference to I'm Gonna Get You Sucka; it came back to me. Suffice it to say that while I have no say in the matter or full understanding of the financial details, I think continuing to work with the Colemans and Billses is not the wisest decision in the world, and that even if it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass...well, the continued trust in them is just beyond me.

You refer to death by OG? Over Gold?

Best outcome of this thread: I just laughed loudly at work thinking about that move. Every gamer over 30 should see it.

Under 30 and you may not get the cultural references.

BlueMax
/whippersnappers
/// get off my AR lawn

[Abstruse]

I can't find the info...has it been released exactly how long this license extension is for? It could just be through the con season or it could be 3 years...

[Abstruse]

You refer to death by OG? Over Gold?

Best outcome of this thread: I just laughed loudly at work thinking about that move. Every gamer over 30 should see it.

Under 30 and you may not get the cultural references.

BlueMax
/whippersnappers
/// get off my AR lawn

What if I AM 30?

[Abstruse]

Double double post post

[Furluge]

I can't find the info...has it been released exactly how long this license extension is for? It could just be through the con season or it could be 3 years...

There isn't any info to find as they haven't released that information and don't look like they will release it publicly.

[Kid Chameleon]

Sorry, we had a thread a couple days or weeks back with a reference to I'm Gonna Get You Sucka; it came back to me. Suffice it to say that while I have no say in the matter or full understanding of the financial details, I think continuing to work with the Colemans and Billses is not the wisest decision in the world, and that even if it doesn't come back to bite you in the ass...well, the continued trust in them is just beyond me.

You keep your friends close and your enemies closer, something along those lines. I can do more good for SR working with CGL than not.

[Ancient History]

That, dear fellow, is entirely a matter of opinion.

[Mesh]

For those interested in Topps' revenues which were public before they went private in 2007:

After enjoying strong revenue growth related to the Pokemon craze in 2000 and 2001, Topps' revenue and profit have declined steadily. For its fiscal 2006,which ended Feb. 25, the company reported net income of $1.2 million on revenues of $293.8 million, compared with net income of $10.9 million on sales of $294.2million for the prior fiscal year. In fiscal 2000 its revenues were $439million.

I don't know what their revenue is now, but since they went private, they have sold over 100 million Attax baseball cards. They start at $1.39 which means they've made at least $139 million off Attax cards alone. They are now run by former Disney CEO Michael Eisner whose investment firm purchased Topps for $385 million and brought them private.

Although their revenues have fluctuated in the past decade, they are a large corporation. IMR/CGL if I am quoting correctly from their statements here regarding the legal case has had a yearly revenue between $1 million and $1.2 million by comparison.

I found this an interesting perspective on the business.

Mesh

[otakusensei]

There isn't any info to find as they haven't released that information and don't look like they will release it publicly.

If they could tell people that they had the license for more than a few months you would have seen it. So since they have not said how long they have it, I can only assume that they have it for a period of less than a few months. Let's be honest, these last few press releases have been spun so hard I'm wearing a neck brace. The license is up for grabs, it's in play, it has a price; right now, not sometime down the road. If that wasn't true, then Randall wouldn't be talking about long term plans like they are a thing of the future.

Topps doesn't want IMR to look insolvent, because a bid against an insolvent company would be less. So they are propping up IMR with an extension, covering their bases legally, and Randall is spinning every press release like he works for Topps directly.

If you were working for Topps, would want to explain to your boss why you signed a 3 year license with a company that can't even get rid of a leader who stole a confirmed 750k?

[agustaaquila]

I don't know what their revenue is now, but since they went private, they have sold over 100 million Attax baseball cards. They start at $1.39 which means they've made at least $139 million off Attax cards alone. They are now run by former Disney CEO Michael Eisner whose investment firm purchased Topps for $385 million and brought them private.

But they didn't make that much. You're forgetting cost of materials (paper isn't free, neither is ink), taxes that the government imposes, and licensing fees.

[Patrick Goodman]

Also, CGL has stated that checks have gone out to the freelancers. I haven't heard any confirmation as to whether or not that's actually happened.

FWIW, I can confirm that at least one check to a freelancer did go out. I received payment for my work on Running Wild. It cleared the bank. I speak for no one else but myself, however.

[Zolhex]

http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/2010/0...dowrun-license/

Thats the news

[Dread Moores]

Why? As I understand it CGL/IMR didn't say how long the license was last time.

That's not quite accurate.

Relevant Link

Lake Stevens, Washington (May 16, 2008) – InMediaRes Productions, under its Catalyst Game Labs imprint finalized a contract for the full rights to publish Classic BattleTech and Shadowrun gaming products for an additional two years today.

Now, that doesn't really mean anything specifically in regards to the most recent license extension. I just wanted to have accurate information out there, as last license renewal/extension, there was indeed a timeline attached.

[Furluge]

If they could tell people that they had the license for more than a few months you would have seen it. So since they have not said how long they have it, I can only assume that they have it for a period of less than a few months. Let's be honest, these last few press releases have been spun so hard I'm wearing a neck brace. The license is up for grabs, it's in play, it has a price; right now, not sometime down the road. If that wasn't true, then Randall wouldn't be talking about long term plans like they are a thing of the future.

Topps doesn't want IMR to look insolvent, because a bid against an insolvent company would be less. So they are propping up IMR with an extension, covering their bases legally, and Randall is spinning every press release like he works for Topps directly.

If you were working for Topps, would want to explain to your boss why you signed a 3 year license with a company that can't even get rid of a leader who stole a confirmed 750k?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) As I stated before, you're going to take everything that's said as being horrible for CGL/IMR no matter what the news is. Jesus could burst out of a volcano and use telepathy to tell the world that CGL/IMR were his disciples to usher in peace on earth and you would still be complaining. So no, I don't agree with your conclusions. You really think they would take a month to bang out a contract that would extend their license for only two months? Wow, what an incredible waste of time and lawyer fees for both Topps and CGL/IMR just to do it all again come September 1st. I mean if you want to set your time table that short go for it, but you're not doing yourself any favors on what you're saying coming true lowballing it like that.

There are plenty of reasons why they wouldn't give out that information, the most likely reason in my mind being the advice of their legal council in regards to the current lawsuit. But again, as I said, you're not going to believe any of them because you want to believe all news for CGL/IMR is bad news.

For your last statement. Let's look at what Topps had to look at when it came to extending the license. You have a company that has performed well with the license, that made an accounting mistake and mixed personal funds with business funds*, but accurately reported the information to you and had the information they reported to you verified by an independent and adversarial to CGL/IMR source. On the other hand you can not extend the license, and take a gamble on some new company that you have no idea how well they will perform, and there will likely be a 1-3 year gap in the new company publishing product as they get up to speed on the properties. Yeah, I can see how it would get extended. I mean, gee, work with a proven company that's had some recent trouble or gamble on a company that won't be pushing product for a while, it seems kind of obvious which to choose.

*I know you think he stole it, but until you can show us a court case where he's found guilty you can't prove that he actually did.

That's not quite accurate.

Relevant Link


Now, that doesn't really mean anything specifically in regards to the most recent license extension. I just wanted to have accurate information out there, as last license renewal/extension, there was indeed a timeline attached.

Ah, thanks for correcting me on that. Well gee then, why does everyone always bandy about three years, three years, as the magic license extension number?

[DarkLloyd]

http://www.shadowrun4.com/wordpress/2010/0...dowrun-license/

Thats the news

Aww Jees...... I guess all you haters lose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)
Now maybe you'll STFU. But I REALLY REALLY doubt it. You losers don't know when to let something go.

Either way. My weekend just got MUCH better.

[Abstruse]

There are plenty of reasons why they wouldn't give out that information, the most likely reason in my mind being the advice of their legal council in regards to the current lawsuit. But again, as I said, you're not going to believe any of them because you want to believe all news for CGL/IMR is bad news.

That would probably be the best reason to announce a long extension timeframe. It shows that the company has a future income stream that is proven to have at least some demand. That would help prove solvency and would only help them in a forced bankruptcy hearing.