CGL Speculation #9, Please review ToS before posting Options

[Redjack]

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[otakusensei]

[quote name='Dread Moores' post='948734' date='Jun 26 2010, 02:43 AM']Relevant Link


Edit: Thanks for the link, sorry I didn't bother looking at the date.

Derp, derp, please ignore early morning stupidity.

[Ol' Scratch]

I don't get the constant insulting of the remaining freelancers, direct or indirect as they may be. Especially when people go around calling them "scrubs" which is just mind boggling. Like there was some kind of union and they were hired behind people's backs, instead of simply replacing people who quit of their own free will.

[Ancient History]

Scrub? D'you mean scab? I have called certain people scabs.

[Ol' Scratch]

Yes, a typo. My medication is making it hard to think straight this week.

[Ancient History]

So ka. I don't use it often and mainly when I'm angry.

[otakusensei]

I don't get the constant insulting of the remaining freelancers, direct or indirect as they may be. Especially when people go around calling them "scrubs" which is just mind boggling. Like there was some kind of union and they were hired behind people's backs, instead of simply replacing people who quit of their own free will.

I'm disappointed in the practices of the current line dev and the lack of care that shows in the products released under his tenure, but that does bleed over into the freelancers that have done the work. I don't have a problem with them individually, just the company they choose to work with. It's a terrible time to be doing what you love, unfortunately.

[Ancient History]

I'm angry that Jason apparently told the replacement writers to use my drafts as a friggin' outline.

[SkepticInc]

Scrub? D'you mean scab? I have called certain people scabs.

I hope you aren't referring to my use of the term "scab" in my post on writing a fan-based PDF. I was mostly checking that the people who make it their living to write these books aren't going to get upset that I was talking about fans doing their job for them.

[Ancient History]

No, I was talking about my use of the word scab.

[Abstruse]

I hope you aren't referring to my use of the term "scab" in my post on writing a fan-based PDF. I was mostly checking that the people who make it their living to write these books aren't going to get upset that I was talking about fans doing their job for them.

I seriously doubt AH would say that...he produced a lot of fan material before becoming a freelancer.

[emouse]

Luckily we're now in a pretty good spot, thanks to a lot of folks, including Frank Trollman. It seems that he's been sending in the 'correct numbers' to Topps. Since the numbers he sent in matched with the ones we gave Topps, it only helped our case with them.

A bit more grist for the fictional run. Corp A knows Runner group Alpha is getting info on them for Corp B, so hires Runner group Beta to get specific information into Alpha's hands that support Corp A's claims that they're making to Corp B.

[emouse]

Thanks for bringing that up, but how exactly does this announcement say it's a short term extension?

Our passion, dedication and promotion of the BattleTech and Shadowrun brands have taken them to heights of quality and popularity not seen in well over a decade. It’s on these strengths that Topps has given us a license extension and are discussing a new long-term contract.”

No lengths are cited for either, but CGL's own statements indicate this is an extension and not a full renewal.

Based on this statement...

Product development continues with every intention to keep a regular publishing schedule into the future and cultivate continued growth of both Intellectual Properties.

The whole point of the extension is to give CGL a chance to get its house in order and resume a 'regular publishing schedule', unhindered by missing funds.

I suspect Topps would also like to make sure CGL pays off freelancers it owes so that Topps doesn't have any copyright surprises in the future.

For these reasons, I'm going to guess that the extension is for one year. After a year Topps will probably be evaluating the situation again, with the benefit of one of their own people having been overseeing things at CGL for a year. If they think CGL is on its way up or even managed to bounce back, they'll discuss long term renewal.

It's definitely in the interest of both parties to keep quiet about exactly how long the extension is for though.

[otakusensei]

The whole point of the extension is to give CGL a chance to get its house in order and resume a 'regular publishing schedule', unhindered by missing funds.

I suspect Topps would also like to make sure CGL pays off freelancers it owes so that Topps doesn't have any copyright surprises in the future.

For these reasons, I'm going to guess that the extension is for one year. After a year Topps will probably be evaluating the situation again, with the benefit of one of their own people having been overseeing things at CGL for a year. If they think CGL is on its way up or even managed to bounce back, they'll discuss long term renewal.

I think you're giving them too much credit. IMR has yet to maintain a production schedule on the par of past license holders. That's the reason why the forth edition of Shadowrun just got it's Corp Guide five years down the road.

I think Frank mentioned a rumor of a proposed extension through Gen Con. My guess is that is what we're talking about here. in an extension That way Topps gets to see if there is a marked difference in con sales this year and watch how the bankruptcy case goes without committing the license long term. In Topps position I wouldn't give IMR an extension past that court date, the last thing they want is their license holder folding nearly a year before the contract expires. More likely they are talking with other parties and giving IMR plenty of rope to either pull themselves up or hang themselves. Even if they manage to get out of the hole they dug, they still have to stand next to a fresh company and explain why they are a better company to handle the license, or rather it looks like Loren Coleman will be doing that if Randall's letter is to be believed.

I know where my money is on that bet. And so does Topps, at Loren's house.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think you're giving them too much credit. IMR has yet to maintain a production schedule on the par of past license holders. That's the reason why the forth edition of Shadowrun just got it's Corp Guide five years down the road.

I think Frank mentioned a rumor of a proposed extension through Gen Con. My guess is that is what we're talking about here. in an extension That way Topps gets to see if there is a marked difference in con sales this year and watch how the bankruptcy case goes without committing the license long term. In Topps position I wouldn't give IMR an extension past that court date, the last thing they want is their license holder folding nearly a year before the contract expires. More likely they are talking with other parties and giving IMR plenty of rope to either pull themselves up or hang themselves. Even if they manage to get out of the hole they dug, they still have to stand next to a fresh company and explain why they are a better company to handle the license, or rather it looks like Loren Coleman will be doing that if Randall's letter is to be believed.

I know where my money is on that bet. And so does Topps, at Loren's house.

But if they fold before the contract expires, then Topps just gives it to another entity... so where is the harm in an extension that has a while to see if things improve?

Keep the Faith

[emouse]

I think Frank mentioned a rumor of a proposed extension through Gen Con.

I just think that's too short a term and too small a scale for Topps to really concern themselves with. Topps originally gave CGL a year to get started, followed by a 2 year license. I suspect this could be something similar.

In Topps position I wouldn't give IMR an extension past that court date, the last thing they want is their license holder folding nearly a year before the contract expires.

Why would it matter? In either outcome, the license is terminated. In either outcome, the licensee folds. In either outcome, Topps is in the same position of having to find a new licensee.

More likely they are talking with other parties and giving IMR plenty of rope to either pull themselves up or hang themselves. Even if they manage to get out of the hole they dug, they still have to stand next to a fresh company and explain why they are a better company to handle the license, or rather it looks like Loren Coleman will be doing that if Randall's letter is to be believed.

That's why I think it's not really in the interest of either company to publicly state how long the extension is for. Catalyst doesn't want to look like it has a countdown clock hanging over its head and Topps probably wants to continue to court interested parties and have offers in hand in case things at Catalyst do manage to fall apart before the extension is up.

I also think that the length of the extension might not really matter. We already know Topps has one of their people keeping a close eye on CGL. They most likely used their leverage to include all sorts of outs in the extension contract. If CGL gets bankrupted, the extension ends. If financial practices aren't cleaned up, the extension ends. If CGL breaks or doesn't meet certain debt repayment goals by a certain time, the extension ends. A set date might be more of a formality in their situation.

[otakusensei]

But if they fold before the contract expires, then Topps just gives it to another entity... so where is the harm in an extension that has a while to see if things improve?

Keep the Faith

It would most likely slow down the process. That could leave Topps with months of time lost that another company could be making them money off their IP. Just a speculation there, but I'd want to avoid it. Also the press of having the company that produces Shadowrun and Battletech going under. As these thread have shown, not everyone understands who owns the games. Much easier to let IMR implode and sign off the license to to someone else. August 9th is the new drop dead date for IMR, so why even risk signing a license with a company that might not be around past the extension date. In fact, the timing of the extension being signed recently could have been based off the courts decision to hold the hearing on the 9th.

I honestly don't think Topps is going to play around with IMR. I'll bet they already know if IMR is going to hold the license or not and they're just using the semblance of solvency to jack up the other offers. I could be wrong, but the alternative is working with an admitted crook who has personally defrauded you.

[otakusensei]

I just think that's too short a term and too small a scale for Topps to really concern themselves with. Topps originally gave CGL a year to get started, followed by a 2 year license. I suspect this could be something similar.

When they got started they didn't have a history of freelancer abuse, embezzlement and a pending bankruptcy hearing.

That's why I think it's not really in the interest of either company to publicly state how long the extension is for. Catalyst doesn't want to look like it has a countdown clock hanging over its head and Topps probably wants to continue to court interested parties and have offers in hand in case things at Catalyst do manage to fall apart before the extension is up.

It's not in the interest of IMR because it's not a fix to their current situation. And if Topps is courting anyone, that's also very not in the interests of IMR because anyone else is going to be in a better position to produce the games. If it was a year long probationary "get straight" extension, they'd be crowing about it. Since there is no information on length, you can assume by the way they are spinning tiny bits of positive info that the info they have isn't positive.

[emouse]

I honestly don't think Topps is going to play around with IMR. I'll bet they already know if IMR is going to hold the license or not and they're just using the semblance of solvency to jack up the other offers. I could be wrong, but the alternative is working with an admitted crook who has personally defrauded you.

Though, as was pointed out, the numbers reported by CGL/IMR and the numbers reported by Frank matched up. So that means Topps was either not personally shorted or defrauded anything, or if they were shorted, CGL/IMR came clean about it, possibly knocking it down from the level of 'defrauding' to 'mistake'.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It would most likely slow down the process. That could leave Topps with months of time lost that another company could be making them money off their IP. Just a speculation there, but I'd want to avoid it. Also the press of having the company that produces Shadowrun and Battletech going under. As these thread have shown, not everyone understands who owns the games. Much easier to let IMR implode and sign off the license to to someone else. August 9th is the new drop dead date for IMR, so why even risk signing a license with a company that might not be around past the extension date. In fact, the timing of the extension being signed recently could have been based off the courts decision to hold the hearing on the 9th.

I honestly don't think Topps is going to play around with IMR. I'll bet they already know if IMR is going to hold the license or not and they're just using the semblance of solvency to jack up the other offers. I could be wrong, but the alternative is working with an admitted crook who has personally defrauded you.

In that you are wrong... I have not been personally defrauded by anyone...

Keep the Faith

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

When they got started they didn't have a history of freelancer abuse, embezzlement and a pending bankruptcy hearing.

It's not in the interest of IMR because it's not a fix to their current situation. And if Topps is courting anyone, that's also very not in the interests of IMR because anyone else is going to be in a better position to produce the games. If it was a year long probationary "get straight" extension, they'd be crowing about it. Since there is no information on length, you can assume by the way they are spinning tiny bits of positive info that the info they have isn't positive.

Or you could just be reading your own desires into the situation... Why not just wait and see, instead of decrying Doom and Gloom for both CGL and Topps? If CGL folds, then Topps will probably have other options lined up anyways, just in case, that is only good business...

Keep the Faith

[Catadmin]

I'm angry that Jason apparently told the replacement writers to use my drafts as a friggin' outline.

Clarification. So far as I know, we weren't told to use your drafts as an outline. I certainly wasn't. I was told to look at one of the writers who had not terminated his contracts.

[otakusensei]

Or you could just be reading your own desires into the situation... Why not just wait and see, instead of decrying Doom and Gloom for both CGL and Topps? If CGL folds, then Topps will probably have other options lined up anyways, just in case, that is only good business...

Because I don't like how IMR is run, I don't like the quality of the work they are producing. And I don't like how they are treating fans and freelancers. So I'm going to be vocal and point these things out. Because waiting and seeing could mean having to deal with more of what we have now.

I know I'm reading some of my own desires into the situation, but I don't believe I'm speculating out of the realm of possibility.

And for the record the "you" above was from the perspective of Topps. I recognize that there isn't a lot customers can do individually and that the actions of IMR don't directly affect us. But they are messing with something that I hold dear, and I will continue to follow developments and post my thoughts on them until such time as I die or feel the line is being given the proper care by people who know what they are doing.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Because I don't like how IMR is run, I don't like the quality of the work they are producing. And I don't like how they are treating fans and freelancers. So I'm going to be vocal and point these things out. Because waiting and seeing could mean having to deal with more of what we have now.

I know I'm reading some of my own desires into the situation, but I don't believe I'm speculating out of the realm of possibility.

And for the record the "you" above was from the perspective of Topps. I recognize that there isn't a lot customers can do individually and that the actions of IMR don't directly affect us. But they are messing with something that I hold dear, and I will continue to follow developments and post my thoughts on them until such time as I die or feel the line is being given the proper care by people who know what they are doing.

And honestly, I do not agree with that particular opinion at all; I actually like the content that IMR/CGL has put out, and am eagerly awaiting more. I am sorry that you do not... I have been playing Shadowrun since 1990, and I can say that there is a LOT of stuff previously that I did not like (many is the time that I thought that the Current Writers did not give the proper care, or did not know what they were doing)... My personal opinions did not determine what was printed in the least. I may not like how IMR/CGL is run, but who really cares? I do not like how a LOT of companies are currently run; It does not mean that I am going to stop buying Gas because I do not like how BP has screwed things up...

Anyways...

Keep the Faith

[Shinobi Killfist]

That would probably be the best reason to announce a long extension timeframe. It shows that the company has a future income stream that is proven to have at least some demand. That would help prove solvency and would only help them in a forced bankruptcy hearing.

You might do that for public relations, but you would likely keep silent until and for the hearing.