Trauma damper with adrenalin pump, Perfect union or...? Options

[iategod]

So i know adrenalin pump adds some useful stuff at the cost of 1 stun per turn, and trauma damper is suppose to take 1 stun point of damage and negate it (among other things). I wanna know if it cancels out the adrenalin pump damage? Im guessing it does.

On another note, say I take the 1 stun damage from adrenalin pump, and the trauma damper negates it, and I take 1 stun damage from an enemy in the same combat pass, will the trauma damper negate that one as well?

[Yerameyahu]

I dunno, but you'll still die when it wears off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

AFAIK, Trauma Damper is -1 from every packet of damage, not per turn.

[Deadmannumberone]

The adrenal pump does (# of turns active)S damage when it's duration ends, not 1S every turn.

[Yerameyahu]

Yup. When it wears off, you're gone.

[Neraph]

Yup. When it wears off, you're gone.

The stun damage is in no way lethal unless you're really smacked around yourself. Getting popped for an extra 6 stun is acceptable to me for the combat benefits of the adrenaline pump, especially if you take a Trauma damper, and better yet, a pain editor (IIRC - the one that negates stun tracks) as well.

[Glyph]

I've never considered the adrenal pump a good choice. It can't boost Attributes over the augmented maximum, so you are better off getting some initiative-enhancing 'ware (which also boosts Reaction) and some muscle augmentation/toner. It is a piece of 'ware that, for enhancing you for a duration of rounds, hits you with unresisted stun damage. Usually not enough to kill you, but if you are using one of the higher-rated pumps, and take stun damage from other sources while you are using it, then yeah, you could wind up biting it.

Since the stun damage is all at the end, the trauma damper doesn't really do much. It negates one box of stun damage, that's it. And the trauma damper cannot work in conjunction with an activated pain editor (nothing stopping you from waiting until the trauma damper helps you with the crash, then activating the pain editor, though).

[Mäx]

The stun damage is in no way lethal unless you're really smacked around yourself. Getting popped for an extra 6 stun is acceptable to me for the combat benefits of the adrenaline pump

6 might be, but how about 18

[Saint Sithney]

If only you could end it at any time with a Dopadrine injection, then it wouldn't be like playing Russian Roulette...

Also, they really don't go into how one purposely activates it.

[Xahn Borealis]

I would've thought a composure test, isn't that it?

[Yerameyahu]

In SR3, there were clear rules for intentional and accidental activation. Steal them, I guess. :/

[Saint Sithney]

I would've thought a composure test, isn't that it?

So, you have to purposely fail a composure test every time you want to activate your implant?
That's a big bouncing clown balloon right there..

[Sengir]

Also, they really don't go into how one purposely activates it.

The same way a pain editor or chemical gland is activated, I'd guess.

[Neraph]

So, you have to purposely fail a composure test every time you want to activate your implant?
That's a big bouncing clown balloon right there..

No, he's saying do a composure test to set it off on purpose.

How about taking some Woad? The berserk would set it off automatically.

[Ryu]

I've never considered the adrenal pump a good choice. It can't boost Attributes over the augmented maximum, so you are better off getting some initiative-enhancing 'ware (which also boosts Reaction) and some muscle augmentation/toner. It is a piece of 'ware that, for enhancing you for a duration of rounds, hits you with unresisted stun damage. Usually not enough to kill you, but if you are using one of the higher-rated pumps, and take stun damage from other sources while you are using it, then yeah, you could wind up biting it.

Since the stun damage is all at the end, the trauma damper doesn't really do much. It negates one box of stun damage, that's it. And the trauma damper cannot work in conjunction with an activated pain editor (nothing stopping you from waiting until the trauma damper helps you with the crash, then activating the pain editor, though).

If you have 30k/0.75 essence, and want some improved combat ability along the lines of the adrenal pump, take muscle aug/toner 1, reaction enhancer 1, and a batch of stimulant patches (look for the autoinjector in AUG). (Stim patches work well with a trauma damper.)

[Sengir]

There's also Kamikaze, it provides a similar "combat boost now, worry about the consequences later" effect while being much more controllable. And it doesn't even require an implant, a breakable tooth or a a piece of body armour with integrated autoinjector does the trick.

[Shinobi Killfist]

The adrenal pump is either a huge rules fail or an attempt to show that all gear isn't equal and there are some really bad choices. I go with it being a massive rules fail. Since you have to activate it even with no penalties it would not be overpowered IMO.

[Ryu]

All gear isn´t equal, and we can´t judge rules failure without knowing intent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

All gear isn´t equal, and we can´t judge rules failure without knowing intent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

totally true, if there intent was to make a totally worthless piece of gear they succeeded on a massive scale with the adrenal pump.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

totally true, if there intent was to make a totally worthless piece of gear they succeeded on a massive scale with the adrenal pump.

I don't know... for the low end ganger, and a low end Adrenal pump, it is not all that bad (Better than some drug combinations in fact)... but once you get teh next level or 2 of the Adrenal Pump, then you start to have issues once it wears off... But honestly, I have never actually used such a piece of gear in any edition, regardless of the rating...

Keep the Faith

[MikeKozar]

In SR3, there were clear rules for intentional and accidental activation. Steal them, I guess. :/

I've got that handy, here we go:

Stress and other emotional states such as anger, fear, or lust will also activate the pump.

[. . .]

Although normally triggered involuntarily, the adrenal pump can also be triggered on demand through the use of adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH/corticotrophin); inhalers with six doses can be acquired from various sources (see Compounds, p. xx, for more details).
The Reaction increase does not affect the skills involved in rigging or decking. To activate or resist the activation of the pump, the character makes a Willpower(6) Test. A Light wound of any kind automatically activates the pump, assuming the character is aware of the damage.

[. . .]

>>>>>[MAO can be used to partially suppress the effects of unwanted pump activation. Check it out.]<<<<<
-The Smiling Bandit <Strikes again!/Ha-Ha-Ha>

The ACTH inhaler they mention is listed as legal at 100Y/six doses, with no effects aside from triggering the pump.

Monoamine oxidase (MAO) is a compound that kills adrenaline, dealing 10L2 (???) stun damage, reducing Reaction by 1 and Initiative by 1d6. It remains in the system for 10-(Body d6) turns after it is applied, and subsequent doses have no effect until the first is flushed.

When used on someone with an active Adrenal pump, it reduces the bonuses given by the pump. The Level 1 pump loses bonuses for Quickness, Strength, and Will, although it still gives a bonus to Reaction (-1 for the MAO). Level 2 pumps hit by MAO function as a Level 1 pump, but keep their Reaction bonus. There is no mention of a Level 3 pump in Shadowtech. No mention is made of a reduction to the stun damage the pump deals. Quote regarding Adrenal Pump counters:

Injectors with more controlled dosages are available to help counter the effects of the random activation of adrenal pump systems. Applications from the injector reduce the effect normally, but inflict no stun damage. The price for injectors is 320Y for a unit with six doses.

My reading on this is that there may be ways to control the Adrenal Pump that didn't make it into the official books for 4e. With trigger drugs and adrenaline-counters both existing earlier in the source material, and the basic principles of the Adrenal Pump remaining the same, I think it is reasonable for GMs to offer some of these to players.

[Deadmannumberone]

Mike - That's the first edition Shadowtech. Converted to SR4* I'd rule it as a drug that ends the effect of an adrenal pump with a minimum of 4 boxes of stun damage.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Mike - That's the first edition Shadowtech. Converted to SR4* I'd rule it as a drug that ends the effect of an adrenal pump with a minimum of 4 boxes of stun damage.

Even though the minimum number of boxes for any of the 3 levels of Adrenal Pump is less than that? Pretty Harsh in my book, since Shadowtech had an option that did not cause any damage at all...

Keep the Faith

[MikeKozar]

Even though the minimum number of boxes for any of the 3 levels of Adrenal Pump is less than that? Pretty Harsh in my book, since Shadowtech had an option that did not cause any damage at all...

Keep the Faith

Which option was that?

[Deadmannumberone]

Basically, being dosed with MAO causes a 4S crash. If the adrenal pump is active the adrenalin counteracts some of the MAO, reducing the amount of crash effect from the MAO dosage, replacing it with crash effect from the adrenalin.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Which option was that?

This one, that you even quoted...

(Shadowtech, Page 100, MAO)
Injectors with more controlled dosages are available to help counter the effects of the random activation of adrenal pump systems. Applications from the injector reduce the effect normally, but inflict no stun damage. The price for injectors is 320Y for a unit with six doses.

Keep the Faith