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> Friday Night Fights in 2072, Round 1
DrZaius
post Jun 20 2010, 06:06 AM
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Hey everyone,
I was bored and I threw this together for fun. I hope you guys like it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

"Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to tonight’s main event, for the heavyweight championship of the world! In the blue corner, weighing in at 215 lbs, with a record of 46 wins, 0 loses, and 35 KOs, wearing green, Michael “Magik” Sullivan!"
[ Spoiler ]

"In the red corner, weighing in at 350 lbs, with a record of 31 wins, 0 loses, with all 31 of his wins coming by knockout, wearing blue, Ramon “Metal” Martinez!"
[ Spoiler ]

"All right, the boxers have been announced, the ref has explained the rules, let’s get to the fight. I don’t anticipate them feeling each other out much Teddy; both are aggressive fighters, and we should see action early. That’s the bell to the first round, here we go!"
[ Spoiler ]

"It looks like Metal has the drop on Magik, let’s see if he manages to do any damage in this early round."
[ Spoiler ]

"Magik is bobbing and weaving, but Metal seems undeterred. Ohhh! A devastating overhand right, and Magik is down! He moved right into that one, and it hit him clean!"
[ Spoiler ]

"Magik got cold-cocked there, but he seems to have most of his marbles. He looks like he’s working the count before he gets back up."
"1… 2… 3… 4…"
[ Spoiler ]

"The ref gives Magik a moment to compose himself, but he’s ready to go. A Nasty cut has opened over his eye, his corner is going to have to look at that between rounds."
"If it makes it that long! Metal looks like a racehorse in the blocks; his adrenaline is off the charts and it’s only a matter of time before he crashes."
"That’s what makes this fight so great Teddy."
[ Spoiler ]

"It looks like with that eye, Metal has just a slight speed advantage on Magik, and is moving in."
[ Spoiler ]

"Oooh! Magik just ducked under that vicious haymaker! I don’t know how much longer his luck is going to hold out."
"Well if he can hold out for just a little while longer, Metal will tire and then it could be anyone’s match."
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal is starting to look frustrated Teddy; he’s throwing bombs and Magik is dancing around the ring; other than that first shot, Metal hasn’t been able to touch him."
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal looks like a man possessed; if Magik can just hold out, it might have a shot, but Metal looks like he doesn’t want it to last that long."
[ Spoiler ]

"Magik isn’t going to win any rounds by running away, but I think his plan is to press the later rounds after Metal is exhausted, which at this rate won’t be long."
[ Spoiler ]

"Magik ducks under a hard straight left, and responds with a nasty uppercut, knocking Metal off his feet and down! What a shot!"
[ Spoiler ]

"With guys souped up like Metal, it’s hard to tell if you’ve hurt ‘em or not; he’s down, but he doesn’t look that hurt."
"What it accomplished Marty is slowing Metal enough to calm him down; this fight is far from over."
"1… 2… 3…"
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal stands without much difficultly; but he’s looking dead tired, it looks like he’s sobered up and his burst of energy from the beginning of the fight is over."
[ Spoiler ]

"They trade jabs, feeling each other out; I thought Metal was going to win with that first burst of energy, but at this point, who knows?"
[ Spoiler ]

"Both are throwing all out, but neither can connect! The crowd in here is absolutely insane; what a show they’re seeing!"
[ Spoiler ]

"Now Metal looks on the defensive, as Magik is counter punching every attack, forcing Metal to back away to avoid those killer strikes!"
[ Spoiler ]

"I honestly don’t know how much more these two can give; they’re both throwing as hard as they can, I’ve never seen a fight with a pace like this."
[ Spoiler ]

"Oh my! Magik set Metal up for that shot, and it was brutal! He’s down again; the three knockdown rule is in effect; if he gets back up, once more on the mat and he’s done!"
[ Spoiler ]

"It’s amazing how much this fight has turned since the beginning. Now Metal’s eye has opened up as well; let’s see if he can get up."
"1… 2… 3…"
[ Spoiler ]

"4… 5… 6…"
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal stands and wipes blood from his chin, smacking his gloves together. The ref checks his eye, and we’re ready for more."
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal is barely hanging on; let’s see if Magik can put him down and get the TKO."
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal is doing everything he can to stay in this fight, but I really don’t know how much longer he can last."
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal looks like a caged animal, pawing at Magik trying to avoid the brutal onslaught. Oh, Magik connects hard with a right hook, and Metal is down! That will do it!"
[ Spoiler ]

"Metal is hurt! His trainer jumps into the ring, and they’re motioning for the Medic! It is complete pandemonium here; I’ve never seen anything like it!! What a fight!"
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StConstantine
post Jun 20 2010, 06:33 AM
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Id love to see more of these, it was awesome
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Falanin
post Jun 20 2010, 06:53 AM
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Hm. I'm unclear on the knockdowns. SR4a p.161 says you're knocked down if you take damage equal to or exceeding your body... but is that before or after you roll to resist? Also, sheer nit-pickery, but don't(wouldn't?) boxing gloves reduce your damage somehow?

Awesome setup and narrative, by the way. I like it.
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Neraph
post Jun 20 2010, 07:08 AM
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QUOTE (Falanin @ Jun 20 2010, 12:53 AM) *
Hm. I'm unclear on the knockdowns. SR4a p.161 says you're knocked down if you take damage equal to or exceeding your body... but is that before or after you roll to resist? Also, sheer nit-pickery, but don't(wouldn't?) boxing gloves reduce your damage somehow?

Well, do you take 10P when you reduce it to 3S, or do you take 3S? You are exposed to 10P, you take 3S.

Also, if you want to know if boxing gloves reduce damage somehow, ask a boxer to punch you with them on. In short, it doesn't really, although one could argue that all damage is Stun, not Physical.
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Falanin
post Jun 20 2010, 07:43 AM
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Fair enough. Though from what I remember, taking a hit from the light sparring gloves in kung fu practice hurt more than when we got out the big boxing gloves. That might just be from the fact that hits from the light gloves were generally due to me glitching my rea+unarmed, however.
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DrZaius
post Jun 20 2010, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (Falanin @ Jun 20 2010, 02:43 AM) *
Fair enough. Though from what I remember, taking a hit from the light sparring gloves in kung fu practice hurt more than when we got out the big boxing gloves. That might just be from the fact that hits from the light gloves were generally due to me glitching my rea+unarmed, however.


Hey,
Glad other people liked it. I went in with zero expectations; I honestly had no idea who was going to win (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .
As for boxing gloves, I thought about adding them in, having them do (Str/2 -2)S or somesuch, but decided to keep it bare knuckled for simplicity sake (besides, killing hands or bone lacing probably is going to do the same damage whether there is a padded glove or not).
Re-reading the knockdown rules, it looks as though you were right. However, Metal would have gone down with that last swing anyways (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) . I just liked that there were rules on getting up, which worked well for a boxing match.
The other thing I screwed up was full dodge; I didn't realize I did it incorrectly until halfway through, and was too lazy to go back and fix it. Basically, you full dodge 'until your next turn'. So, if I'm interpreting it correctly, let's say Metal goes first in a round. Metal attacks, Magik full dodges; then, on round 2 of the initiative, Metal attacks again, and Magik is still dodging. Therefore, he rolls full dodge again, and on his turn in pass 2, Magik gets an attack.

-DrZaius
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 20 2010, 02:53 PM
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Yea generally speaking if you give one fighter a piece of gear that guarantees they can't win prolonged fights and stick them in a prolonged fight they loose, and you were puzzled about this?
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Eratosthenes
post Jun 20 2010, 03:04 PM
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I noticed you added Enhanced Articulation in to Metal's unarmed attacks? I'm pretty sure EA only applies to Physical skills (Athletics, Stealth), and not Combat skills.

Great run through of the combat system. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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LurkerOutThere
post Jun 20 2010, 03:49 PM
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In fourth edition EA applies to combat just fine.
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Jaid
post Jun 20 2010, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 20 2010, 11:49 AM) *
In fourth edition EA applies to combat just fine.

no, it doesn't.

are combat skills physical skills? no, they aren't. they're combat skills. therefore, enhanced articulation does not improve combat skills because what enhanced articulation does is improve _physical_ skills with linked physical attributes. not combat skills.
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DrZaius
post Jun 20 2010, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 20 2010, 10:53 AM) *
Yea generally speaking if you give one fighter a piece of gear that guarantees they can't win prolonged fights and stick them in a prolonged fight they loose, and you were puzzled about this?


I thought he would KO Magik before Magik got a chance to respond. I was surprised how quickly the adrenaline boost wore off, in terms of the time of the fight. What I meant by "I didn't know how it was going to turn out" was that I wrote up both characters and threw them in there, not really knowing how the dice would come out. To be honest, Metal had a *huge* advantage early- he was winning nearly every initiative, which let him be the aggressor right up until the end.

Jaid: Yeah; I wasn't sure on that, so I ended up giving it to him. I'll add it to the long list of things I did wrong with this post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) I had fun with it regardless though.
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Floyd
post Jun 20 2010, 07:24 PM
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I hate to be arguementative, but all the skills that are used in combat situations use the physical attributes in question. I believe that shadowrun does a good job showing, especially in the skills chapter, that using those skills are no different from any application of any other skill.
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DrZaius
post Jun 20 2010, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ Jun 20 2010, 10:53 AM) *
Yea generally speaking if you give one fighter a piece of gear that guarantees they can't win prolonged fights and stick them in a prolonged fight they loose, and you were puzzled about this?


Now that I've seen what happens though, it looks like the adrenaline pump is a bit of a bust. I had never used one before, so I was interested to see how it would play out. It's sort of an "all-or-nothing" augmentation; either the guy tears your arms off or 20 seconds in he's bent over sucking air, there doesn't really appear to be a middle ground. I may do this again, with new guys, and different skills/gear, while making sure I follow the dodge/knockdown rules more carefully.
Am I reading the dodge rules right?
i.e.
Metal wins initiative.
Round 1
Metal attacks Magik, Magik full dodges.
On Magik's turn, he's dodging.
Round 2
Metal attacks Magik; does he need to full dodge again, or does he get to use the dodge from before, because he hasn't really 'gone' yet?
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Tanegar
post Jun 20 2010, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE ('SR4A @ p. 345')
Enhanced articulation provides its user with a +1 dice pool modifier on any test involving Physical skills that are linked to Physical attributes.

Note the capitalization. "Physical skills" are a specific subset of skills, not just any skill that happens to be linked to a Physical attribute.; the list starts on p. 124. Skills like Firearms, Blades, Unarmed, etc., are linked to Physical attributes, but are considered Combat skills, not Physical skills.
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Deadmannumberone
post Jun 20 2010, 08:13 PM
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While going on full defense as an interrupt uses their next complex action, it does not skip their next action phase (just uses a complex action from the phase, leaving them with a free action).
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Glyph
post Jun 20 2010, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (Deadmannumberone @ Jun 20 2010, 01:13 PM) *
While going on full defense as an interrupt uses their next complex action, it does not skip their next action phase (just uses a complex action from the phase, leaving them with a free action).

Exactly. The example even explicitly states as much:

QUOTE (SR4 @ pg. 151)
On 10, however, Klaus has already used his Complex Action to defend, so he spends his Free Action to run towards cover.
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DrZaius
post Jun 20 2010, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jun 20 2010, 04:21 PM) *
Exactly. The example even explicitly states as much:

Ok; so I was doing it right then?

Phase 1
Metal attacks Magik. Magik full dodges.
On Magik's turn, he uses his free action to wince.
Phase 2
Metal attacks Magik. Magik full dodges.
On Magik's turn, he uses his free action to bleed.
?
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Glyph
post Jun 20 2010, 09:07 PM
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Yeah, except for the enhanced articulation thing (and in SR3, it did add to combat skills). I have to say, though, that the structure of the fight was pretty unfriendly to an adrenal pump. I mean, with pausing the fight to let fighters get back to their feet, that ate up three rounds on a single knockdown. No big surprise that the sammie lost. Still a fun little exercise, though.
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Critias
post Jun 20 2010, 10:05 PM
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No Counterstrike for the adept?
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Glyph
post Jun 20 2010, 10:28 PM
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Although he never explicitly stated as much, both builds seem to be built using only the main book.
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Mesh
post Jun 20 2010, 10:36 PM
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The guy with the adrenal pump shouldn't have begun the fight with it. It causes a crash when it's out, it allows you to ignore stun modifiers, and it allows you to stay conscious when your stun is full. I've always imagined them as the ace up your sleeve that you use when you're about to lose anyway. It's the card that guarantees you won't be on your feet at the end of the encounter so you play it at the end. After mopping up the gang that raided your safehouse, you're bleeding from every orifice, and there's one troll Lt. left. Frag it. If you're going to hell, this guy's going first <hits the gland>. If you're lucky, you might have one empty track on your CM when it's all over and you wake up.

So in a boxing match I'd stick it out as long as possible before jazzing the gland.


On EA from SR4a:
- Enhanced articulation provides its user with a +1 dice pool modifier on any test involving Physical skills that are linked to Physical attributes.
- There are three types of skills in Shadowrun—Active skills, Knowledge skills and Language skills.

If you're trying to go RAW-lawyer on EA, you're referring to a type of skill that doesn't exist. There isn't a skill type called "Physical Skills", and if you search the SR4a pdf for all its references, the term is used loosely in different ways in half a dozen places. There are Physical Active Skills, but that's not what EA refers to. Check p120 of SR4a. It has a list of skills linked to physical attributes. That's what I allow the +1 on for EA. I'm not sure how you can say your enhanced articulation helps you climb, palm items, and do gymnastics better but has no effect when swinging a sword, wrestling, dodging, or even firing a weapon. The BBB doesn't maintain its terminology in every reference so it's hard to say definitively what they intended with EA. I don't have a problem giving out the +1 (which isn't a huge deal anyway) on tests linked to physical attributes.

Mesh
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Critias
post Jun 20 2010, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Jun 20 2010, 06:28 PM) *
Although he never explicitly stated as much, both builds seem to be built using only the main book.

Yeah, just noticed that. To be honest, I think I've slapped a few points of it onto every Adept I've made in SR4 (since they all tend to be martial artist types), so it's such a "core" power to me I forgot it's not in the main book.
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Deadmannumberone
post Jun 20 2010, 10:56 PM
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QUOTE (Mesh @ Jun 20 2010, 03:36 PM) *
On EA from SR4a:
- Enhanced articulation provides its user with a +1 dice pool modifier on any test involving Physical skills that are linked to Physical attributes.
- There are three types of skills in Shadowrun—Active skills, Knowledge skills and Language skills.


SR4A pg 124 would like some words with you.
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Mesh
post Jun 20 2010, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Deadmannumberone @ Jun 20 2010, 06:56 PM) *
SR4A pg 124 would like some words with you.


Yes, I covered that. "Physical Active Skills" which is not what EA references. That's why I think excluding the +1 from combat skills is not RAW justified.

Mesh
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Glyph
post Jun 20 2010, 11:47 PM
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Considering that "Physical" is capitalized, while "skills" is not, the only thing it could possibly be referring to is Physical Active Skills.
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