Pistols Specialization, Semi-Automatics Options

[Moomin]

If a character specializes in Semi-automatics for the Pistols skill does that cover every pistol that can fire in SA mode, so one that has SA/BF/FA would be included? Or just pistols that only fire in SA?

[Yerameyahu]

I'd say it's whenever you're firing a Pistol in SA mode. Kind of an odd specialization. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Deadmannumberone]

I would not allow that broad of a specialization (and yes, I'm aware it's RAW), but I imagine that most GMs would only allow it to apply to SA only pistols or restrict it to when pistols are fired in SA mode.

[WetworX]

Personally, I would consider this specialization to cover any form of autoloading pistol. It would not cover breach loading, muzzle loading, revolvers, or any sort of bolt action pistol.

I don't have my books handy to refer to the other specializations in this category.

It seems that alot of people are way too eager to try to disect the rules rather than roll with them.

Remember that SA refers to Single Action (requiring a cocked hammer) not semi-automatic (auto-loading).

[Deadmannumberone]

Remember that SA refers to Single Action (requiring a cocked hammer) not semi-automatic (auto-loading).

No, SA is semi-automatic.

Most ranged combat involves firearms that fire in one or more of the following modes: single-
shot (SS), semi-automatic (SA), burst-fire (BF), and full-auto (FA).

[Glyph]

Semi-automatics is almost the default specialization, since most guns will fall under this category. The only pistols it doesn't apply to would be things like holdouts and revolvers (and tasers, of course). Personally, I would not allow it to be used when firing pistols in burst fire mode (for ones like the Ares Viper or Savalette Guardian).

[Yerameyahu]

So yeah, it's pretty broad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[MikeKozar]

I'm seriously considering restricting weapon specializations in my future games to a particular weapon: Ares Predator IV, AK-97, etc. From a power standpoint it seems appropriate; it will be the gun you carry with you, so you will generally get the bonus. If you have to pick up someone else's gun, you won't get the +2...unless it's the same model as yours.

[Yerameyahu]

You might also consider +1 for categories (shotguns, SMGs, revolvers), and +2 for specific models, if you're trying to lower the power a tad.

I'm fine with Longarms (Shotgun), or Automatics (Machine Pistol), but obviously there can be some specializations that might be too broad.

[WetworX]

No, SA is semi-automatic.

well, that is why I didn't vollunteer to GM @ GenCon even though I live in Indy, not enough experience with the rules...

Unfortunately...

[Glyph]

So yeah, it's pretty broad. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

At least it's not "martial arts". (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Nixda]

Yea, SA specialization is RAW from what I remember, which seems a bit silly since with the gun modification rules you can mod a SS revolver to get a SA firing mode as well. So it might be useful to consider a houserule there.

[Yerameyahu]

Well, all specializations are basically GM-approval. :/

[TheOOB]

I don't allow a semi-automatic specialization, but I do allow an autoloaders specialization. It does cover a majority of the guns, but there are enough good non-autoloaders that it works.

[Whipstitch]

My houserule to fix it is very likely going to turn into just making Firearms into one skill again, with automatics, longarms and pistols being specializations. Ultimately most runners just end up carrying the one or two superior models of weaponry most of the time anyway. Might as well just end this farce the easy way.

[Daylen]

Well, all specializations are basically GM-approval. :/

Isn't everything with GM approval?

[Dumori]

Yes but to take a spesilisation it MUST be GM approved by letter of RAW.

[TheOOB]

My houserule to fix is very likely going to turn into just making Firearms into one skill again, with automatics, longarms and pistols being specializations. Ultimately most runners just end up carrying the one or two superior models of weaponry most of the time anyway. Might as well just end this farce the easy way.

That is something I have considered. From a role play perspective it makes little sense to have someone who is a wiz with an assault rifle but can't fire a pistol to save his life(or a hunting rifle for that matter), and from a game design perspective automatics is so overpowered compared to the other two skills.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, that's a whole other perennial discussion. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Snow_Fox]

To add RL expeirence revolvers vs semi-auto hand guns do have a very different feel.
It comes to cocking the gun. Even if a gun is double action, if it isnn't cocked it takes more pull on the tirgger to make it go 'bang' the harder you pull the more likely you are to pull it off target. A semi-auto after the first shot will cock itself so it takes much less pressure on the trigger. By comparison a revolver must be re-cocked. You can just pull the trigger on a doubler action but for more accurate fire you mannually cock it-pull the hammer back with you thumb. Yes this will take the weapon out of line while going on but back on line it will be a more accurate shot than if you had just pulled the trigger.

Personally when firing a revolver on the range I find I mannually cock each shot. The weapon seem more accurate than the semis but it is slower firing.

[Daylen]

That is something I have considered. From a role play perspective it makes little sense to have someone who is a wiz with an assault rifle but can't fire a pistol to save his life(or a hunting rifle for that matter), and from a game design perspective automatics is so overpowered compared to the other two skills.

You seem to have forgotten about defaulting. Yea it kinda sucks when ya have to default, but as someone who grew up shooting shotguns and rifles when I bought a pistol and used it, well I SUCKED at first.

[Nixda]

True enough Daylen, I'm decent with rifles myself and rather bad with pistols.
But it makes a lot less sense that you can be at world champion level with sniper/sporting rifles (including those with SA mode) but have to default when using an assault rifle in SA mode.

[Daylen]

True enough Daylen, I'm decent with rifles myself and rather bad with pistols.
But it makes a lot less sense that you can be at world champion level with sniper/sporting rifles (including those with SA mode) but have to default when using an assault rifle in SA mode.

Ah now that is something else. I have always found it silly and a bit ignorant that rifles and assault rifles were considered different. I think it is a relic of the politics of the early 90s and 80s when progressives were trying to eliminate the 2nd amendment and BS like the assault weapons ban and related talk that tried to make it seem like assault rifle really had any meaning beyond the weapon looking scary and militarized.

[Yerameyahu]

It's not so much a question of going from AR to Pistol in the same skill, but going from Pistol to Machine Pistol, or from AR to Sport Rifle, or from LMG to AR, etc. It's the little jumps that result in a DP that's 7 dice smaller that bothers people.

Personally, I just use fewer categories. Pistols and Machine Pistols, SMG/AR/LMG, etc. It's still tricky, of course.

Um. Assault Rifle does have a specific meaning. It's a selective-fire rifle firing a high-speed cartridge that's smaller than a battle rifle. That's not to say it's wholly distinct from any other rifle, but it's hardly 'no meaning but scary'.

[Dumori]

I at one point semi blanced the firearms skill. I added a few of heavy weapons to the group. Then had sidearms(pistols-Machine Pistols), close quaters(Shotguns,SMGs), support and the other one was rifles and ARs. I can't quite recall all the groupings now. This evend out the numbers per group and made the whole firearms group a more vieable group. In fact Machine Pistols might have been in Close quaters. I was also considering adding some of the more exotic guns in to a few catagorys as exotic weapon skills are way to pircy for what they do.