A use for Adrenalins Pump 3 Options

[Deadmannumberone]

Yeah, having used cyber can be a nasty choice, but I was specifically thinking about limb capacity items being used cyber, since you get the same effect from them for half the cost. There aren't many good reasons to get a new Orentation system or a new Nanohive when you can just get one used and drop it in a limb for no extra essence cost.

It's always been a case of "why pay retail?" for me. It may seem unfair to pay half as much as book for something you drop in a limb, but it's not unreasonable. Especially for an Augmentation Addict. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

At chargen all accessories that take up capacity have to be the same grade as the cyberware it is installed in.

Note that cyberware accessories must be of the same grade as the implant they are added to.

[Stahlseele]

No.
They have to be at least the same grade as the limb that was installed or better.
in a new arm, you can get standart, alpha, beta, delta stuff.
in a alpha arm, you can get alpha, beta, deltsa stuff.
in a beta arm, you can get beta and delta stuff.
in a delta arm, you can only get delta stuff.
does it anywhere mention how to deal with used parts as addons at all? O.o
if you have a standard arm and you buy used standard, does it work?
or does only used alpha work? if so, you could simply buy standard grade.
what about a used alpha grade arm? can you install used alpha addons?
or can you only install normal alpha addons?

[Saint Sithney]

Used is a modifier to a grade. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Meaning?

[CeeJay]

Means that used alpha ware is still alpha ware.

-CJ

[Stahlseele]

Meaning i can get into a normal arm used alpha for example.

[Jaid]

Meaning i can get into a normal arm used alpha for example.

looks that way.

(edit: ie, i think that's what the rules say, and i don't really have any major problems with it since cyberlimbs are so expensive anyways i don't think it would unbalance things particularly. note that some things are modifiers to the cyberlimb, not parts you install; a bulk modification or having the base stats tweaked up to appropriate for your character are modified cyberlimbs, not something you install into the cyberlimb per se.

[Stahlseele]

*nods*
i understand that.

[last_of_the_grea...]

I belive myself to be a "thinker". I love to make plans for maximized efficiency. But I prefer doing that ingame. Sure, I like trying to come up with overpowered characters as well, but what can I do after that? Die so I can make another overpowered character? Not likely. Instead, I make and average or even underpowered character and then I optimize the strategy instead of the character. It's so much more fun that way.(For me at least)

Yeah, but after that what are you gonna do? Die so you can make another average or underpowered character so you can optimize the strategy yet again? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Underpowered is for the weak! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

[Whipstitch]

but it does have advantages in essence/nuyen cost, doesn't it?

Not by enough to really matter. A Muscle Toner 2+Muscle Augmentation 2 combination will net you 2 Strength, 2 Agility for 30,000 nuyen and .8 essence, while a Rating 1 Adrenaline Pump nets you 1 Agility, 1 Will, 1 Strength, and 1 Reaction for 30,000 nuyen and .75 essence as well as a bonus that is offset by a highly random deal breaker of a drawback. That's a whopping savings of... 0.05 essence. And it's not even active all the time, which I guess is a good thing because it would kill you. Woo. Now, you can go a rung higher at chargen without using qualities and get a rating 2 Adrenaline Pump and clearly win out in total attributes (again, only when it's active), but at that point you're talking about 2d6 unresisted stun and twice the essence cost (Pumps cost Ratingx0.75). I guess you can make a cost argument if you insist upon including a straight up comparison to the Pain Editor as well, but that hits me as a bit of a red herring. A Pain Editor can actually keep you up and moving around pretty well even after you normally would have lost consciousness, and thus is quite capable of saving your hide if you play it smart and keep a Biomonitor-- my second SR4 group as a player featured a troll samurai who managed to keep his feet that way as we made our hard exit a couple of times. Meanwhile, staving off unconsciousness with a Pump is a short term solution at best, and once it wears off you'll effectively be eating Physical due to Stun overflow. The Pump can rather be likened to a fancy Dead Man's Trigger. It can help ensure you do some damage before you go lose consciousness, but that's about it.

There is one bright side though from a GM perspective: A rating 3 Adrenaline Pump can end up dealing 3d6 unresisted stun and be unintentionally activated by physiological responses. Thus a runner could feasibly go to a strip club and end up knocking himself unconscious.

[MikeKozar]

Yeah, but after that what are you gonna do? Die so you can make another average or underpowered character so you can optimize the strategy yet again? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Underpowered is for the weak! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ork.gif)

That's really up to the GM. You're only over/underpowered if you're getting into stuff you can't handle...or that can't handle you. If you're a full cyberzombie riding in a tank, the Haloweeners are no longer a valid opposition; conversely, if you're street level, you've got no business taking on a KE Tactical Team.

Assuming you and your GM are on the same page, it becomes a question of 'which game do you want to play?'. Street Level? Epic Cyborgs and high-Initiation Mages? Gumshoes and Gangsters, or Missiles and Mayhem? The only wrong way to play is one that isn't fun.

[Shinobi Killfist]

That's really up to the GM. You're only over/underpowered if you're getting into stuff you can't handle...or that can't handle you. If you're a full cyberzombie riding in a tank, the Haloweeners are no longer a valid opposition; conversely, if you're street level, you've got no business taking on a KE Tactical Team.

Assuming you and your GM are on the same page, it becomes a question of 'which game do you want to play?'. Street Level? Epic Cyborgs and high-Initiation Mages? Gumshoes and Gangsters, or Missiles and Mayhem? The only wrong way to play is one that isn't fun.

While I agree I think it is important to note that like every other group game, the entire group should be on the same page.

[Megu]

You Scored as Character Player

The Character Player enjoys creating in-depth characters with distinct and rich personalities. He identifies closely with his characters, feeling detached from the game if he doesn’t. He takes creative pride in exploring different characters, often making each new one radically different than others he’s played. The Character Player bases his decisions on his character's psychology first and foremost. He may view rules as a necessary evil at best, preferring sessions in which the dice never come out of their bags. For the Character Player, the greatest reward comes from experiencing the game from the emotional perspective of an interesting character.

Character Player
85%
Storyteller
80%
Casual Gamer
65%
Specialist
50%
Tactician
50%
Weekend Warrior
40%
Power Gamer
25%


Seems about right. I tend to treat the whole thing as improv theater with dice, and make up a character's backstory and personality well before I sit down with any actual stats. Melodrama and character interactions excite me, but tactical planning and calculating stacking bonuses just make my head spin.

Regarding the Adrenaline Pump, aside from the moodchip, is there any way to just set up the damn thing so it goes off based on a command from your commlink rather than more or less whenever you get excited? Seems like there ought to be.

[Yerameyahu]

You absolutely get to activate the Adrenaline Pump whenever you want to. The problem is that it can also activate when you don't want it to, not that you have zero control.

[Megu]

You absolutely get to activate the Adrenaline Pump whenever you want to. The problem is that it can also activate when you don't want it to, not that you have zero control.

Well, right. I'm just wondering if there's some kind of other item you could hook up with that that would make that problem go away. It seems like something somebody would have looked into, you know?

[Yerameyahu]

Honestly, I don't think moodchips even count, but I'd be open to a player convincing me. They'd have their own drawbacks.

The best solution is to bring back MAO from SR3. It inhibits/deactivates the Pump. The player's required to buy it from somewhere, deal with slap/autoinject/whatever, and it has its own side effects (a little Stun, when properly used?). Addiction is also a possibility. To me, that sounds good.

[Saint Sithney]

Honestly, I don't think moodchips even count, but I'd be open to a player convincing me. They'd have their own drawbacks.

The best solution is to bring back MAO from SR3. It inhibits/deactivates the Pump. The player's required to buy it from somewhere, deal with slap/autoinject/whatever, and it has it's own side effects (a little Stun, when properly used?). Addiction is also a possibility. To me, that sounds good.

Now just lower the Essence cost to be less than the Superthyroid gland...

[Glyph]

I have made less than optimal choices for characters in the interest of roleplaying, but there is a difference between less optimal (say, someone who prefers laser sights to smartlinks because he hates AR) and outright crippling. As written, the adrenaline pump is not a piece of 'ware that any rational person would bother with.

[Ol' Scratch]

If it was cheap and dirty to install, I could see people taking it. Kinda like Boosted Reflexes from the older editions (which were a cheap drug treatment that gave you a poor man's Wired Reflexes, just with no way to turn it off). But with the hindrances and the inflated costs for it... yeah. I just can't rationalize any kind of character taking it. Unless it was an Apple product. Those fanboys love buying overpriced crap. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (Sorry, couldn't help myself.)

Anyway, going with that thought process, if you were to change it into an inexpensive cyberware option where a street doc just has to slice you open and plant the device on top of your adrenal glands or whatever... I could actually see that. Would be a great option for gangers and other poor bastards who need an edge to compete. Sort of a crossover between drugs and professional implants. The price for both Essence and Nuyen would have to come way down, though, and you'd probably have to adjust the bonuses a bit to compensate. But still, an interesting idea. To me anyway.

[Yerameyahu]

No, if it were an Apple product, they would only sell Wires 3, and everyone would whine that it cost more than Secondhand Basic Wires 1.

I like it as remaining Bioware, but the essence could likely use some tweaking right along with the other numbers.

[MikeKozar]

Honestly, I don't think moodchips even count, but I'd be open to a player convincing me. They'd have their own drawbacks.

The best solution is to bring back MAO from SR3. It inhibits/deactivates the Pump. The player's required to buy it from somewhere, deal with slap/autoinject/whatever, and it has its own side effects (a little Stun, when properly used?). Addiction is also a possibility. To me, that sounds good.

What might be fun is if the damage from the Adrenal Pump was not subject to overflow. Tactically, it's still as dangerous, since you are likely to get KO'd after your first fight, but strategically, you know the guy will be getting back up eventually.

Come to think of it, Adrenal Pump 3 as written might be a valid option in a shifter - let Regenerate sort out the after-effects.

[Yerameyahu]

You know, I was thinking exactly that yesterday. You'd have to disallow Pain Editor specifically from working, though: the Pump would knock you out, regardless. IMO.

[Stahlseele]

What might be fun is if the damage from the Adrenal Pump was not subject to overflow. Tactically, it's still as dangerous, since you are likely to get KO'd after your first fight, but strategically, you know the guy will be getting back up eventually.

Come to think of it, Adrenal Pump 3 as written might be a valid option in a shifter - let Regenerate sort out the after-effects.

what do the rules say on shifters and ware?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

what do the rules say on shifters and ware?

Only Delta Ware Allowed... so it will be an expensive piece of 'ware to be sure...

Keep the Faith

[MikeKozar]

what do the rules say on shifters and ware?

I don't know, I've never rolled one. Shall I assume from your question that you know something I don't? ...and you're going to make me go look it up, because it amuses you to do so?

Alright, it looks like due to their magical nature, Shifters can only accept Deltaware, which makes the already stupid-expensive AP3 cost 900,000Y. It also may damage their ability to shapeshift due to Essence Loss (-1.13 at Deltaware) and if the Shift doesn't simply expel the foreign matter, the augmentation will only work in animal form, being unavailable in human form.

Searching Runner's Companion for other ways to get the Regeneration power - it looks like Infected can accept Deltaware, but the cost is still prohibitive.


Nope, the Adrenal Pump 3 will probably kill the user within a week of implantation, Rules-As-Written, and I don't see any way around that. Houserule it or pretend it doesn't exist.