Sixth World Almanac electronic release!, It's out NOW! Options

[Adam]

I still think it's a fucking dumb invention.

You're arguing over implementation details, not the "invention" portion of it.

You're calling the entirety of Shadowrun, First Edition something that "only nutcases would buy" merely because the armor rules were wacked. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

No i don't.
I'd buy the 1st Ed rules before i use the 4th Ed rules which i only bought to know what the heck is talked about on dumpshock <.<

[Adam]

*headdesk*

Totally missed the point.

[Stahlseele]

not if i get that reaction, i didn't ^^
i know you meant i should not call one product stupid because of some parts of the product being stupid . .

[Adam]

Oh good. Logic still does work on the internet, sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Catadmin]

Oh good. Logic still does work on the internet, sometimes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

It does? Where?

And what does Logic get paid, anyway? I'd like to see the salary comparison.

@=)

Back on topic, I was just perusing the maps on the Dumpshock wiki (and have not yet looked at the 6WA map). How current are the wiki maps?

[Ancient History]

Old, relatively speaking. They're Wordman's from five or six years ago now. There was one point in the project where they were going to be ripped for 6WA, but some of the freelancers made a big stink about it.

[Blue eyes]

Really enjoying this pdf! It's a great book, filled with great info about each year and lots of countries, and really awesome maps! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

There are ofc a few countries that are missing that I would have like to see in the book, like a focus on the scandinavian union and the scandinavian countries outside the union, but I completely understand that theres not enough room for all of them.

[Tycho]

really disappointed!

Only 200pages and there was take about "if we had more countries in the book, it will be too big"??!

There is way to much History Section and to little actual World Description. Even countries like Spain are not included.

The History Section would be enough an 50pages, and then 250pages world description, that would be better.

And I don't want to start about the map: There are so much mistakes on the map! Not even the most obvious things like the coastline of the north sea.

cya
Tycho

[Sengir]

OK, had some time to skim over the history section yesterday evening and one thing really stuck out:
The canon so far was that by executive order of president whatshisname, which was later ratified by congress*, the United States had publically decided to kill each and every Amerind on their territory - which is something even Hitler didn't dare to say in public.
Now we have the speech quoted in the 6WA, and there the president just talks about treating the Amerinds as enemy combatants and repatriating them. Even if that was just a propaganda smokescreen for the extermination campaign, it would already be a retconn (although to the better if you ask me). But what's even worse is that it goes completely unchallenged by the shadowtalk, which should provide an in-universe counterpoint to in-universe spin doctoring.

And to complete the continuity screwup, the history box just talks about a publically announced genocide, like all canon sources so far did..


*: AFAIK that's not how executive orders work, but oh well...

[Catadmin]

OK, had some time to skim over the history section yesterday evening and one thing really stuck out:
The canon so far was that by executive order of president whatshisname, which was later ratified by congress*, the United States had publically decided to kill each and every Amerind on their territory - which is something even Hitler didn't dare to say in public.
....
*: AFAIK that's not how executive orders work, but oh well...

If I recall my politics correctly, Executive Orders do not need to be signed off by Congress. However, Executive Orders cannot compel military action. Even police actions have to be approved by Congress.

EDIT: Amending my Congress comment, the President can order military into action for EMERGENCY PURPOSES but to get it to be a sustained and sustainable action, he needs Congressional approval.

So this is a double-whammy "oops" sort of thing. But I believe it came from an earlier edition and is only being revisited in 6WA. Hmm, there's got to be a good conspiracy theory in there somewhere. @=)

[hobgoblin]

There are ofc a few countries that are missing that I would have like to see in the book, like a focus on the scandinavian union and the scandinavian countries outside the union, but I completely understand that theres not enough room for all of them.

looking at the map makes me go wtf about this topic.

1. when did norway give up svalbard to the aleuts?

2. i thought denmark was part of the scand union, so why is there a border around it? or was the border supposed to have red dots?

[Blue eyes]

looking at the map makes me go wtf about this topic.

1. when did norway give up svalbard to the aleuts?

2. i thought denmark was part of the scand union, so why is there a border around it? or was the border supposed to have red dots?

Looking at the map and the borders it looks like neither Denmark nor Norway are members of the scandinavian union in 2072.

[hobgoblin]

Looking at the map and the borders it looks like neither Denmark nor Norway are members of the scandinavian union in 2072.

actually, norway still is, as the line along the border is dotted (tho dotted red on orange do mess with visibility). That marks a internal border (funny enough, the only other place outside of the union its used is between salish-shidhe and tsimishian).

but the border wrapped around denmark is solid orange for some reason.

[MindandPen]

Minor nitpick, but 5 pages in, there is this paragraph in the opening story (second page of the story).

So Warthog told his story. He’d been hired on a simple bump and thump—“accidentally” bumping into a football player while said player was out hitting the clubs, aggravating the his security entourage a little, and then, when the security boys got chippy, roughing them up.

I'm surprised this didn't get caught by the proofreaders.

-M&P

[Pepsi Jedi]

Not trying to nitpick. As I rather love the book. But the editing was kinda horrid.

There's alot of just simple spacing mistakes. Where words will be together Likethis and they weren't caught. And the thing with the side bars being copied in two places. (( thus depriving us of two of the side bars)) was glaring.

Hopefully they'll read this and do a once over before going to dead tree print

[hobgoblin]

would not surprise me if the parts that have flaws are the parts that had to be replaced because of freelancer issues.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Freelancer issues don't pertain to simple typing mistakes and two of the yearly side bars out of about 80 years worth are not freelancer mistakes. It's a blocking mistake. Someone put the same information in two year wrap ups instead of the ones that were supposed to go there. While I think the Freelancer thing sucks, this is not that. To imply it is, is wrong.

These are just standard editing mistakes. Thing is there's alot of them. Their editors need to be more careful. For a 15 second down load that cost $25 there's alot of mistakes. If it goes to dead tree format and is $45, these would be inexcusable. I mean I spell for drek and I'm catching stuff. And the doubled year wrap ups.... that's just.. ---bad---.

[Piersdrach]

I know most think it's so easy to proof. It isn't. Could it be better? Yes, but I haven't found a single RPG book yet the was 'perfect'.

The more fingers in the pie so to speak on the writing the harder it is to keep 'perfect'.

[Pepsi Jedi]

Noone's saying it has to be perfect. I'm far far far from perfect. But I'm not charging $25 for a 15 second download or $45 for a 200 page book either. For that price, the mistakes should be minimal, few, and far between.

They are not.

To be honest I'd like the PDF updated with the right year breakdowns in place. I don't like the fact I've paid for a flawed product. I'd also like the maps to work on my platform.

The spelling mistakes and stuff, bespeak a lower level of professionalism, that is NOT reflected in the cost. For $25(digital) or $45 (Dead tree) the thing OUGHT To be better put together.

[Adam]

The length of time an electronic book takes to download is 100% irrelevant to how good it should be and how much it should cost.

[Piersdrach]

So what is your error per page limit?

Errors are industry-wide, it is a common complaint amongst gamers.
Proofreaders: 10
Writers: 16
Editors: 2

Proofreaders who are also writers: 5
Editors who are also writers: 2
May be more but these are the acknowledged credits.

You see a common theme amongst RPGs like this, when people are doing double+ duties, they miss items. And/or when their proofreaders are 'in the know' they overlook items. A proofreader could proof their part but it then has to go to layout and/or something has to be changed and that change causes runonwords <--like that.

This post has been edited by Piersdrach: Jul 5 2010, 08:56 PM

[Grinder]

The length of time an electronic book takes to download is 100% irrelevant to how good it should be and how much it should cost.

Is he pulling a Cain or a Fuchs there, I wonder? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[MindandPen]

So what is your error per page limit?

And what is the error rate in other media? How many errors in published novels, newspapers, etc? When I was working on proposals for Government contractor we had to hit NO errors.

-M&P

[Piersdrach]

And what is the error rate in other media? How many errors in published novels, newspapers, etc? When I was working on proposals for Government contractor we had to hit NO errors.

-M&P

Depends on who you ask and how much of a stickler they are.

Gamers want something that cannot be done. There is just too many hands that books like this have to go through to keep it at a low error rate. Let's look at 2 people who both wrote and proofed the book, John Schmidt and Michael Wich. Did they proof their own work or did they proof a certain section, that may or may not have included their own contributions. Did Matt and Adam check each others layouts?

We have no idea how they went about producing the book. All we know is 3 people were involved in development,(2 of who were the editors and also writers), 16 writers, 10 proofreaders( 5 of whom wrote as well) and 2 layout persons. 26 odd people(who are credited). That is quite a few trying to keep everything all nice and error-free.