Suite Programing, dude., Rules on programing suites |
Suite Programing, dude., Rules on programing suites |
Jun 28 2010, 07:46 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 19-June 08 From: St. Louie Member No.: 16,065 |
Page 128, of Unwired, has program suites the player or gamemaster can buy and use. The upshot is that the suite is a slew of programs that, systematically, counts as a single program. Reduces system lag.
A player could group together programs to reduce their system lag effect, basically creating a player designed suite. But I could not find any game rulings that would allow a player to do that. I thought of imposing an Extended Programming skill test with a threshold of the total rating of all programs in the suite added up, and an interval of 1 month. But I don't want to create a house rule without knowing the published rule, if there is one. Please let me know if there is a published rule, and where it might be. Or if there is not, what possible game imbalance I may be creating with my house rule above. |
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Jun 28 2010, 08:10 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
It says (same page) that you follow the rules for each component program, however all changes must be done together). So you have all the rules there, you just have to invest a lot of time to program a suite and none of it is operational until you get it all done. And, you'd have to patch it all at the same time as well.
So the balance is, you spend a lot of time maintaining these program suites. |
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Jun 30 2010, 06:40 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 104 Joined: 19-May 10 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 18,592 |
Additionally, if one program crashes or is infected, the entire suite suffers the same fate.
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Jun 30 2010, 04:05 PM
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#4
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
Although in RAW you don't have to patch self-programmed software.
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Jun 30 2010, 05:09 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
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Jun 30 2010, 05:26 PM
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#6
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
Not that I know of
But I haven't checked every errata. |
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Jun 30 2010, 05:30 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 |
I thought I read somewhere here a couple weeks ago that that was errata'd, so you do have to patch it... If not, then one less disadvantage to a programming suite. I believe that was the other way around. Otherwise it's more cost effective to buy pirated software every month rather than drop 6 weeks and 3k to make a Rating 6 program. |
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Jun 30 2010, 05:40 PM
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#8
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
The errata only says the self-coded software does not degrade *due to planned obsolescence*, not that it does not degrade at all (due to actual obsolescence, etc.).
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Jun 30 2010, 05:51 PM
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#9
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,996 Joined: 1-June 10 Member No.: 18,649 |
There are absolutely 0 rules for planned vs unplanned obsolescence.
So that leaves it wide open to who the hell knows. |
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Jun 30 2010, 06:04 PM
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#10
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Exactly. Which is why you would assume they *do* degrade.
QUOTE Unwired Errata v1: Software programmed by the hacker and Open Source programs never degrade in this fashion, but may require patch- ing to remain current at the gamemaster’s discretion. The GM is explicitly free to tweak that, though. Standard degrade rate is 1/mo Hacking, 1/2mo Other; the GM could rule that self-coded degrades half as fast (1/2mo Hacking, 1/4mo Other).I'm a lifelong minmaxer, and an enthusiastic SR 'hacker' player, and even I would blush to argue that I self-coded all my programs and now I'm set for life. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jun 30 2010, 06:55 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 21-June 10 Member No.: 18,737 |
It takes a ridiculously long time to write your own programs though, even with a programming environment and a rush job. Do your games really feature that much downtime?
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Jun 30 2010, 06:56 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,179 Joined: 10-June 10 From: St. Louis, UCAS/CAS Border Member No.: 18,688 |
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Jun 30 2010, 07:48 PM
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#13
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
You only have to do it once, ever. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Hell, pretend it happened during your pre-chargen. Downtime is infinite.
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Jun 30 2010, 08:24 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 21-June 10 Member No.: 18,737 |
I don't know if I'd be able to get away with "I didn't pay for any of these programs at chargen because my character spent 5 years programming before the team met", lol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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Jun 30 2010, 08:25 PM
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#15
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
That's what I'm saying. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) You can't get away with, "I never have to update these", either.
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Jul 1 2010, 01:17 AM
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#16
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
I don't know if I'd be able to get away with "I didn't pay for any of these programs at chargen because my character spent 5 years programming before the team met", lol (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) You would still pay for the Programs (it is still a resource after all, and you are not really "Buying" them), as Character Creation "Resources" are just there to place a limit on what you can purchase... using the hubris of "I coded them Myself" is really not all that bad... Honestly, I have found that with the existence of cracked software, it is a pittance to keep the programs SOTA, so it really is not all that big of a deal... And programming Software is not all that hard to do either... with Programming Suites (Extra Dice), Programming Environments (1/2 Interval), and Rush Jobs (1/2 Interval, possible increased Risks), and even Edge Expenditures to Cut the Interval (1/2 Again), Programming a Hacking Program which usually has an Interval of 1 Month now has a possible ending interval of 3.5 Days... An Agent (3 Month Interval) becomes an Interval of 9 1/2 Days... Not so bad actually And the Eratta in Unwired says that Self-Programmed programs MAY degrade at the GM's WHim... does not mean that it has to... you can always use the arrogance of continuous tweaking during down time to keep it SOTA and not have any real issues. Keep the Faith |
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Jul 1 2010, 01:43 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 316 Joined: 21-June 10 Member No.: 18,737 |
You can use Edge to halve an extended test interval?
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Jul 1 2010, 01:44 AM
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#18
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
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Jul 1 2010, 02:30 AM
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#19
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
You would not pay for self-coded programs at character creation, if they're allowed. That doesn't make sense.
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Jul 1 2010, 02:42 AM
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#20
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
You would not pay for self-coded programs at character creation, if they're allowed. That doesn't make sense. Yes you would... Character creation gives reasons to have equipment. You do not actually purchase the equipment from a store; much of that equipment is represented by what you have been able to acquire over the time before the campaign starts... As such, it is a representation of the Value of the Equipment, not the cost of actually obtaining it... As such, any programs you self coded would still have to be "Purchased/Acquired" before the game starts, which is what the "Cost" of the program represents. Keep the Faith |
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Jul 1 2010, 02:44 AM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 446 Joined: 16-May 03 Member No.: 4,598 |
You would not pay for self-coded programs at character creation, if they're allowed. That doesn't make sense. It does Items at creation are not all bought at a mall, some are items (foci for instance) that are made/programed by the character. Others are items they stole or purchased on the black market. A good example: Mage A has a power focus, he bought it from his talismonger contact Mage B has an identical focus, but she made it prior to the start of the game from telsma she gathered Both pay the same nuyen cost and karma costs for the item, even though one technically made it for less by aquiring the raw materials and putting it together. So if the GM allows it, all hackers can have self coded utilites but will have to pay the resource nuyen to account for effort and time put into to write them. |
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Jul 1 2010, 02:46 AM
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#22
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
It does Items at creation are not all bought at a mall, some are items (foci for instance) that are made/programed by the character. Others are items they stole or purchased on the black market. A good example: Mage A has a power focus, he bought it from his talismonger contact Mage B has an identical focus, but she made it prior to the start of the game from telsma she gathered Both pay the same nuyen cost and karma costs for the item, even though one technically made it for less by aquiring the raw materials and putting it together. So if the GM allows it, all hackers can have self coded utilites but will have to pay the resource nuyen to account for effort and time put into to write them. QFT... Indeed... Keep the Faith |
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Jul 1 2010, 02:53 AM
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#23
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
Nah. That's fine for your game. In mine, if you make something, you pay make prices, if it's possible within the availability.
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Jul 1 2010, 02:55 AM
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#24
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Nah. That's fine for your game. In mine, if you make something, you pay make prices, if it's possible within the availability. Always an interpretation... but that means that your craftsment will start out WAY more powerful than those who cannot create their own things, which is counter to the Character Creation Intent. Keep the Faith |
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Jul 1 2010, 02:57 AM
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#25
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Advocatus Diaboli Group: Members Posts: 13,994 Joined: 20-November 07 From: USA Member No.: 14,282 |
No, they invested in crafting skills, and it's hardly 'WAY' more powerful. In SR3, this was all different for pre-/post-chargen costs, but in SR4, everything is the same price whenever.
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