The Injection Dart, Impervious to all Amour? Options

[Floyd]

The rule reads: "Effects depend on the drug payload, but to successfully deliver the payload and penetrate armor, the attacker needs two net hits on the Ranged Combat Opposed Test."

The AP for both the Parashield Dart Pistol and Rifle is -2, as is the damage for both "As Drug/Toxin".

Lastly, for this example, let us select Narcojet, with a power 10 and penetration of 0.


So, my attack scores 4 hits with the Parashield Rifle. My target would get to react (Reaction) or dodge (Reaction + Dodge) to reduce my hit to 1 or less to negate my attack. If my attack retains 2 or more hits, would my target would then get to resist damage, as they would with a normal attack? This assumes that damage of the attack, when listed "As Drug/Toxin", is the same as the power, in this case Narcojet. I have to assume since the rules never flatly state that damage and power are synonymous, but I am of the opinion that this is a safe assumption.

So, does my target now resist the 10 power and net hits of my attack with Body and Impact Armour Rating? Do they receive any bonuses from toxin resistance for this test, or is there a follow up Toxin Resistance test if the damage isn't reduced to nothing? If there is a follow up test, is the power of the toxin the original amount, 10 for Narcojet, or is the power value equal to the remaining damage from the damage test previously?

Since the injection dart has no inherent damage value, and the book never states that damage and power are the same; I have to assume the system required to resolve the action. Is there printed errata? Is there previous intent? Can you help, please?

[Gamer6432]

Power
The Power of a toxin represents its potency. In most cases, Power represents
the DV (Stun or Physical) inflicted by the substance, as noted
under Effect. This damage is reduced with a Toxin Resistance Test (see below);
if the damage is reduced to 0, no other effects apply unless specifically noted.
In the case of toxins that do not inflict actual damage, Power is still
used to determine if other effects apply; if the Toxin Resistance Test
fails to reduce the Power to 0 (just like DV), then other effects apply.

Toxin Resistance Test
The victim makes a resistance test using Body + the rating of any protective
systems or gear. Every hit reduces the toxin’s Power by 1 point.
If the Power is reduced to zero, the toxic substance takes no effect;
otherwise apply the Effect depending on the remaining power level.
If a contact-vector toxin was applied with a melee attack, the character
receives her Impact armor bonus as well.

[Dumori]

I believe you then apply the toxin as it had been injected. So use rolling body+toxin resistance. However I wouldn't count me on that I've never used them.

[Floyd]

Alright, Gamer, How would you resolve the weapon's AP of -2?

Please, I am asking for suggestion, not a reprinting of the rules. I understand what you have posted, but it doesn't answer my question.

Thank you Dumori, but does the Power reset or is it reduced from the damage resistance test? In you responce, was there a damage resistance test at all?

Alright.....I see the answer now, sorry Gamer.

[Dumori]

Thank you Dumori, but does the Power reset or is it reduced from the damage resistance test? In you responce, was there a damage resistance test at all?

No no damage resitance test this dose may the AP pointless unless it apples to the toxin resistance test though.

[Gamer6432]

Sorry I forgot the commentary with the re-post of rules. Best as I can tell, the -2 AP on the Parashield weapons is pointless and doesn't enter into the equation. If you succeed on your Ranged Attack test with 2 net hits, the victim them must resist the drug's power rating as if it were DV, using Body + any toxin resistance gear rating. Each hit reduces the power of the drug by one. If the power is reduced to zero, the drug has no effect. As best as I can tell, this includes any secondary effects like disorientation, nausea, or blindness.

[nemafow]

Could the -AP apply to toxin protection from armor? Ie its a way to reduce the effectiveness from the toxin protection.

[DrZaius]

Could the -AP apply to toxin protection from armor? Ie its a way to reduce the effectiveness from the toxin protection.

I almost feel like you should roll armor; doesn't that make sense? If I shoot someone with a dart gun, it's got to get through their armor jacket before the poison hits them. Unless you're negating armor by calling your shot. So that's what I think the "-2 AP" for the Dart Rifle is for. I don't have my book at the moment, so I could be way off on this.

-DrZaius

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I almost feel like you should roll armor; doesn't that make sense? If I shoot someone with a dart gun, it's got to get through their armor jacket before the poison hits them. Unless you're negating armor by calling your shot. So that's what I think the "-2 AP" for the Dart Rifle is for. I don't have my book at the moment, so I could be way off on this.

-DrZaius

Yeah... Impact Minus 2 makes a lot of sense to me... Of course, if it was me, I would just use a called shot to negate the armor all together...

Keep the Faith

[DrZaius]

Yeah... Impact Minus 2 makes a lot of sense to me... Of course, if it was me, I would just use a called shot to negate the armor all together...

Keep the Faith

So in game terms, you'd roll reaction (to avoid the dart hitting you), Impact armor -2 (to see if the dart got through your armor), then Body + Toxin Resist to resist the poisons effects. That's how I'd call it.

-DrZaius

[Yerameyahu]

Better playtest it a little. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

So in game terms, you'd roll reaction (to avoid the dart hitting you), Impact armor -2 (to see if the dart got through your armor), then Body + Toxin Resist to resist the poisons effects. That's how I'd call it.

-DrZaius

Seems Logical, But Yerameyahu is correct, this might need playtesting...
Of course, if you are shooting someone who does not know you are there, then Reaction is right out, and all you have to do is either avoid armor, or see if it penetrates.

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

I never even knew about 'must have 2 net hits'. I always thought it was 'must do 1 box of damage after soak'. I see now that I think about it (because I never have) that that doesn't really make any sense. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Dumori]

How ever as it dose no damage. Any armour will stop the dart.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

How ever as it dose no damage. Any armour will stop the dart.

Whcih is why it pays to avoid the Armor, or know that the target is wearing armor that only provides 2 points of impact value (which the dart will penetrate easily with the -2 AP) as the dart will ignore it completely.

The other option is to treat it as a weapon that does 0p damage that stages with Normal Net Successes and has an AP -2, and then resist the damage normally... if at least 1 physical point gets through, the toxin is delivered.

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Well, if you're going that route, 0P isn't fair. 1P at the very least (literally), and probably more for a rifle dart.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, if you're going that route, 0P isn't fair. 1P at the very least (literally), and probably more for a rifle dart.

Why? Rifle Darts do not cause any level of real damage to the targets they are intended to affect. It is like getting stung by a bee or wasp. It may Hurt, but no damage is really inflicted (unless you are allergic, of course). They are generally a device for intramuscular delivery of a toxin.

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Because, no one is going to get 14 net hits with their dart rifle! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) It's that, or change the -2 AP.

[The Monk]

Whcih is why it pays to avoid the Armor, or know that the target is wearing armor that only provides 2 points of impact value (which the dart will penetrate easily with the -2 AP) as the dart will ignore it completely.

The other option is to treat it as a weapon that does 0p damage that stages with Normal Net Successes and has an AP -2, and then resist the damage normally... if at least 1 physical point gets through, the toxin is delivered.

Keep the Faith

The problem with that is if you don't do enough damage, then the armor makes the damage Stun.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

The problem with that is if you don't do enough damage, then the armor makes the damage Stun.

Which is really okay in my opinion... After looking at it, Any damage should impart the Toxin... I can pretty much guarantee you that when you get a Flu Shot you are not taking any Physical Damage (or Stun damage for that matter) at all... a small sting and you are done.

Same Principle here... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

Well, as I said, I *don't* think the 'must do at least 1 damage' rule is correct or good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[The Monk]

How about give the dart a damage code, add in the net hits, and if it is greater than 1/2 impact armor after AP modifier then the dart deliver's the toxin. Go directly to Toxin Resistance Test.

This way there isn't an extra roll.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Well, as I said, I *don't* think the 'must do at least 1 damage' rule is correct or good. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

But it does work... if a little wonky...
Personally, if you just use what is in the book, all you need is 2 Net hits to deliver the toxin... Move directly to Toxin Resistance... Do not pass Go, and do Not Collect 200 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) AS the Dart will, at that point, bypass any of the Armor, an Armor based Toxin Resistance will no longer apply (Dart penetrated the Armor and is embedded in Skin)

Keep the Faith

[Yerameyahu]

I think we're looking at why it doesn't really work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Against basically any target, you need 6 net hits? Better off calling the shot to bypass armor.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I think we're looking at why it doesn't really work. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Against basically any target, you need 6 net hits? Better off calling the shot to bypass armor.

Nope... Against any Target, you only need 2 Net Hits... that is what the rule states.

Keep the Faith