Troll cybertank, For SRM Options

[Reg06]

So I'm working on that super tough troll concept for a Shadowrun Missions character (so standard character generation rules apply, and the max dice pool is 20 or natural stat+skill- meaning the max soak pool would be 26), and I have a few questions;

- For determing the Body score, do I count in noncyber limbs? So I have 2arms at Body 17, and the natural Body is 6 (the troll in question is actually a fomori), the average would be 10, correct?
- For upgrading these limbs, how would that work, exactly? Each has a rating 6 Body enhancement, and is customized for 8 extra points of Body. So I can later add two more customized points of body, and that would be 3000 nuyen per point (alphaware), at an availability of 13, and then 14, right? And then enhancing it to rating 7 would cost 1400 nuyen at availability 21?
- For swapping out limbs, like when I have money for deltaware, does the new full limb fill the Essence hole that was left, or would I take another Essence hit?
- Where does cultured bioware go? Specifically the Pain Editor? It'd be unfortunate to not get that piece of bioware once every limb is replaced with cyberware.
- Lastly, is there any other way to augment Body on a non-Adept? My goal is to get the Body score as high as possible in order to keep the damage resistance test high when going up against armor piercing rounds. I see bonelacing and bone density augmentation, but those don't actually increase the Body score, don't add enough dice.

And here's what I have so far for the character;
Fomori (45 BP)
Restricted Gear x3 (15 BP)
Exceptional Attribute (20 BP)
250,000 nuyen (50 BP)
Contact; connection 6, loyalty 6 (12 nuyen)
Logic 5 (55 BP)
Will 6 (65 BP)
Reaction 3 (20 BP)
Edge 5 (65 BP)
Armorer 4 (16 BP)
Cybertechnology 6 (24 BP) Specialization (2 BP)
Demolitions 4 (16 BP)
Heavy Weapons 4 (16 BP)
Throwing Weapons 3 (12 BP) Specialization (2 BP)
Negative Qualities (35 BP worth)

Gear;
Full alphware cyberarm body 13 customization and rating 4 body enhancement x2 - 133,600
Shop - 5000
Snake Fingers on each hand - 2000
Telescoping cyberarm x2 - 5000
Cyberarm slide on each arm - 6000
Bulk Modification x3 on each arm - 12000
Genetic Optimization Body - 45000
Adapsin - 30000
Armor Jacket (Damage Resistance test is 18/16) - 900
10 Frag Grenades
10 Hi Explosive Grenades
16 kg foam explosives
1 kg commercial explosives

[Wasabi]

Instead of Exceptional Attribute get "Metagenic Optimization" as it gives the stat point AND raises your max.
For every tank that uses cyber I suggest a Platelet Factory and Trauma Dampener. They reduce physical damage by 2 which isnt hindered by the dice pool cap.
Reaction, point for point, is better than body once you have your armor maxed out.

With restricted gear "SWAT Armor" for 12/10 and a standard helmet (1/1) a Body 10 Fomori can get to 20Ball/20Imp using PPP and FormFitting. Note that except for damage from spells you'll mostly be taking stun.

Carry Stim patches. Use the Genetic Infusion "Sideways" from Arsenal, but have enough Edge you dont have to "Hand of God" when the infusion wears off. At avail 16 they take a while to get but dang is it powerful. They last two weeks so in missions terms thats two modules.

Lastly, in SRM's you'll never have the money for Deltaware. My SRM team's face in Denver had 24-28 dice and the payouts just... aren't... there. Since the lower of bio or cyber has its essence halved look at just under 4 essence of each and hovering *near* 0 essence.

[Wasabi]

SWAT Armor (12B/10I) Avail 16, 16750 Nuyen
Gel Packs (1B/1I) Avail 12, 10250 Nuyen
Form-Fitting Body Armor Half-Body Suit (4B/1I) Avail 7, 1500 Nuyen
Forearm Guards (0B/1I) Avail 8, 1400 Nuyen
SecureTech Helmet (0B/2I) Avail 6, 1300 Nuyen
SecureTech Leg and Arm Casings (1B/1I) Avail 6, 1250 Nuyen
SecureTech Shin Guards (0B/1I) Avail 10, 3150 Nuyen
SecureTech Vitals Protector (1B/1I) Avail 4, 200 Nuyen
Helmet (1B/2I) Avail 2, 100 Nuyen

Total 20 Ballistic /20 Impact

[Traul]

- For determing the Body score, do I count in noncyber limbs? So I have 2arms at Body 17, and the natural Body is 6 (the troll in question is actually a fomori), the average would be 10, correct?

Yes, but why bother when you can have the same by soft-maximizing your Fomori's natural Body?

Each has a rating 6 Body enhancement

Enhancements are limited to Rating 3 without a cybertorso.

10 Frag Grenades
10 Hi Explosive Grenades
16 kg foam explosives
1 kg commercial explosives

I wonder how he lost his arms... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I wonder how he lost his arms... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

Indeed... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Keep the Faith

[Glyph]

I really think you are misreading the optional SR4A rule on dice pools that Missions uses. It only applies to skill tests. Damage resistance doesn't even have a "skill plus stat" dice pool.

[Reg06]

- Platelet Factory and Trauma Dampener both sound fantastic, but they are bioware and I wasn't sure if they could be used by a toon with a cyber torso so I didn't purchase them.
- "Instead of Exceptional Attribute get "Metagenic Optimization" as it gives the stat point AND raises your max." I have both, for an unaugmented max of 13 Body
- Armor. Because the of price of cyber limbs I need to use Restricted Gear on limbs to start with the best I can get, not armor.
- "Yes, but why bother when can have the same by soft-maximizing your Fomori's natural Body?" I don't understand soft-maximizing. I could put BP into the Body score, but it'd be capped at 13, and the goal for this guy is to max out the soak pool without using armor (or get as close as possible).
- "Enhancements are limited to Rating 3 without a cybertorso." Whoops. I'll see if I can get the nuyen for a cybertorso.
- "I wonder how he lost his arms... " This character was built off a joke, about a troll with so many points into resisting damage it didn't have any offensive combat abilties so it just walks around dropping grenades and soaking the damage.
- "I really think you are misreading the optional SR4A rule on dice pools that Missions uses. It only applies to skill tests. Damage resistance doesn't even have a "skill plus stat" dice pool. " I don't think that's true. The rule from SR4A doesn't mention skill tests, just dice pools.
- As for Reacion being worth more than Body, yes. If I never get hit I don't need armor, but I like this for entertainment value.

I rearranged some money and BP, and the fomori now has a cyber torso (unmodified, which drops the Body score to 9) and 6 Reaction. But I had to drop the explosives, snake fingers, telescoping limbs, bulk modification, and the cyberarm slides.

[Yerameyahu]

Torso is just a shell.

I think pool caps are for skill tests only, agreed.

[MortVent]

Looks like someone is going for the SR 1st edition troll... the ones that took an anti tank missile and laughed

[iategod]

.... the max dice pool is 20 or natural stat+skill- meaning the max soak pool would be 26)

What glyph means is for damage soaking you don't get a +skill ... it's just stat+armor lvl.

check this thread out bout armor stacking
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=31629


Why have cyber arms? If you are doing it for story elements ok, but if you think you can soak more damage with em you might wanna just save yourself the nuyen and essence and invest in other abilities to help with the damage. There are more than 1 way to deal with damage. You can completely avoid it, then you won't have to roll for soaking, ie reaction+dodge(gym)+combat sense+improv ability (adept power to improv dodge or gym)+improv attrib. That will give you around 30 (theoritically) dice to avoid damage all together. Then with stacked armor you can still have 20 to soak it. Then there's regen via shapeshifter. Then stacking armor, the obvious choice. There's a few more ways to avoid/soak damage.... spells, spirits, etc...

[Reg06]

Why have cyber arms? If you are doing it for story elements ok, but if you think you can soak more damage with em you might wanna just save yourself the nuyen and essence and invest in other abilities to help with the damage. There are more than 1 way to deal with damage. You can completely avoid it, then you won't have to roll for soaking, ie reaction+dodge(gym)+combat sense+improv ability (adept power to improv dodge or gym)+improv attrib. That will give you around 30 (theoritically) dice to avoid damage all together. Then with stacked armor you can still have 20 to soak it. Then there's regen via shapeshifter. Then stacking armor, the obvious choice. There's a few more ways to avoid/soak damage.... spells, spirits, etc...

Cyberarms were just the logical first step for replacing every limb. And the idea is to get shot in the face and not care. Dodging is a much better option, but not as entertaining, and you can't dodge an explosion, or a gas, or a surprise attack.

[iategod]

Cyberarms were just the logical first step for replacing every limb. And the idea is to get shot in the face and not care. Dodging is a much better option, but not as entertaining, and you can't dodge an explosion, or a gas, or a surprise attack.

ah, so we are talking like terminator style. I would ask if you can play a shapeshifter, go with the bear, they can get a body of 19. Then add regen to that (at end of every combat turn roll body+magic hits=damage healed)... then add armor.

[Stahlseele]

Cyber-Limbs won't help with GAS, as they only help with physical Damage.
And they don't really help with Damage, you just can take some more of it before falling over.
The Armor in the Cyberlimbs on the other hand will help with the Damage itself.
But get something that helps with Stun Damage too. As you will most likely take Stun damage often.

[Reg06]

iategod- Shapeshifters are not SRM legal, unfortunately. Still, a fomori (or sasquatch, I believe) with Exceptional Attribute and Genetic Optimization can get 19 Body (augmented).

Stahlseele- The Body from all those cyberlimbs will add to the damage resistance pool. And this character has 6 Will and Arcane Arrester.

[Stahlseele]

how do you figure the limbs are gonna add to the damage resistance?

[Reg06]

Body+ Armor for Damage Resistance tests, and cymberlimbs are the only way I can get 19 Body. Am I missing something?

[Stahlseele]

You can get Body 19 even WITHOUT Cyberlimbs.
EASIER without Cyberlimbs too, as it's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to get Limbs up to that Level of Toughness.
Armor, ok, i will give you that. And they give one more Damage Box each, that too, but NOT for the Body . .
Also, even if you get them up to that level, you still don't get to ADD the Body to your own in the damage Resistance test O.o

[Reg06]

You can get Body 19 even WITHOUT Cyberlimbs.
EASIER without Cyberlimbs too, as it's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to get Limbs up to that Level of Toughness.
Armor, ok, i will give you that. And they give one more Damage Box each, that too, but NOT for the Body . .
Also, even if you get them up to that level, you still don't get to ADD the Body to your own in the damage Resistance test O.o

I can see Body 13, and then +3 as an adept at chargen (or Body 12, then +4). As for the Damage Resistance test if each limb (2 legs, 2 arms, the torso, and the head) all of 19 Body the average of my limbs in 19, so my Body score for tests involving Body is 19, correct?

[Glyph]

Two things I just noticed - you can only hard max one Attribute at character creation, so you can't have a Logic of 5 and a Willpower of 6. Also, an Edge of 5 only costs 40 points, not 55 (trolls have a maximum of 6 for Edge).

[Shrike30]

For heavily armored characters I'm more a fan of the Pain Editor... your stun track fills eventually, and you might as well double its effective length (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Reg06]

Two things I just noticed - you can only hard max one Attribute at character creation, so you can't have a Logic of 5 and a Willpower of 6. Also, an Edge of 5 only costs 40 points, not 55 (trolls have a maximum of 6 for Edge).

Good catch. I'll probably drop the Willpower. The Edge point cost must have been a mistake of some sort.

Shrike30- As long as I can implant that bioware with a cybertorso, yeah, it's on the list.

Can a character with all 6 limbs replaced by cyberlimbs still take cultured bioware and bioware that is not linked to a particular body part (e.g. platelet factories)?

[Traul]

Good catch. I'll probably drop the Willpower. The Edge point cost must have been a mistake of some sort.

Shrike30- As long as I can implant that bioware with a cybertorso, yeah, it's on the list.

Can a character with all 6 limbs replaced by cyberlimbs still take cultured bioware and bioware that is not linked to a particular body part (e.g. platelet factories)?

Yes. Cybertorsos and skulls are not complete replacements, you still keep the internal organs.

[Wasabi]

For heavily armored characters I'm more a fan of the Pain Editor... your stun track fills eventually, and you might as well double its effective length (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For SRM's the genetic infusion "Sideways" is arguably better since it lasts for 2 missions and in addition to wound modifiers being negated it also adds a host of other bonuses. If either option is taken, though, I'd suggest a biomonitor hooked to an image link be it glasses or contacts or cybereyes.

[Yerameyahu]

Yeah, and Sideways only has a small chance of outright killing you, or brutally maiming! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Reg06]

Sideways is awesome, but expensive for SRM when I need every nuyen I can get to upgrade the limbs.

I have another couple questions;
Are there any guidelines for creating cyberware? The section on page 138 in the SR4A book is very sparse for what should be a pretty in depth system. I can get 22 dice pretty easy, but I don't know whether cyberware is intricate, or exotic (I assume intricate, as the parts and plans should be pretty common), and there are no suggestions for intervals that I can find.
Even if the DM picks an interval I can work with, how do I get parts? Will pulling parts from cyberware taken from my enemies work? It seems like alot of GM fiat.