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> Magic for the mundane, Detect spells and other spells
Stormdrake
post Jul 16 2010, 04:33 PM
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My players have some pretty heavy magic hitters in the game and I am looking at upping the opponents abilities without turning them all into mages. Can some one go over or tell me the page number where it deals with detect/barrier spells and how they work?
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bernardo
post Jul 16 2010, 06:46 PM
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Check manatech in Arsenal, p. 64.
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LurkerOutThere
post Jul 16 2010, 06:50 PM
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Bound guardian or guidance spirits are a corps best friend when it comes to stoping hostile magic on their holdings. Manatech is good for detecting magic or astral intrusion but it's active countermeasures tend to have really scary drawbacks.
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Stormdrake
post Jul 16 2010, 08:19 PM
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I was reading the old Atzlan book and they mentioned detection/barrier fetishes for one off protection of mundane security. Its a trigger combination but can't remember where they talk about it in 4th edition.
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Badmoodguy88
post Jul 16 2010, 09:52 PM
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You could add some paranormal critters. A Merlin Hawk might come in handy. Just don't go adding a lot of extremely endangered species. Some of the species are only in the double digits as a world wide population.

Also to corps that don't have to go through the red tape it is cheaper to switch to heavy weapons then to hire their own mages. Wile I can't see them switching to heavy lasers, I can see them switching to heavy machine guns. They are not THAT expensive.

Also you could hand out Lucifer Lights to every guard with a gun. The can be used to spot astral targets but have many false positives. Plus they are expensive to keep running per hour because they burn out so fast and are expensive.

Also there are magical drugs. I think the supply is to limited for even a corp to give it to many of its people, but someone sent to take the runners out might see to getting their team some of these.

Sage- The mixture grants the critter power of Innate Spell
(Detect Magic, Extended) and a +1 Perception increase.

Spirit Strength- This compound grants the critter powers of Hardened
Armor 5, Mystic Armor 5, and one enhanced sense of the
gamemaster’s choice.

Witch’s Moss-Grants the critter power Innate Spell (Petrify). This one is probably not very useful.
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Cabral
post Jul 16 2010, 10:35 PM
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I believe Nimue's Salamanders are not that uncommon and their ability to drain magic is snifty.
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Hagga
post Jul 17 2010, 04:35 AM
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The higher class corpsec could have their own paranimal pets. Nothing keeps spellcasters busy like demon rats, stealthy little buggers.
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Stormdrake
post Jul 17 2010, 06:08 AM
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Badmoodguy,
What book did these drugs come out of?


QUOTE (Badmoodguy88 @ Jul 16 2010, 05:52 PM) *
You could add some paranormal critters. A Merlin Hawk might come in handy. Just don't go adding a lot of extremely endangered species. Some of the species are only in the double digits as a world wide population.

Also to corps that don't have to go through the red tape it is cheaper to switch to heavy weapons then to hire their own mages. Wile I can't see them switching to heavy lasers, I can see them switching to heavy machine guns. They are not THAT expensive.

Also you could hand out Lucifer Lights to every guard with a gun. The can be used to spot astral targets but have many false positives. Plus they are expensive to keep running per hour because they burn out so fast and are expensive.

Also there are magical drugs. I think the supply is to limited for even a corp to give it to many of its people, but someone sent to take the runners out might see to getting their team some of these.

Sage- The mixture grants the critter power of Innate Spell
(Detect Magic, Extended) and a +1 Perception increase.

Spirit Strength- This compound grants the critter powers of Hardened
Armor 5, Mystic Armor 5, and one enhanced sense of the
gamemaster’s choice.

Witch’s Moss-Grants the critter power Innate Spell (Petrify). This one is probably not very useful.

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Makki
post Jul 17 2010, 07:44 AM
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they are in Street Magic, of course. but they're pretty expensive. why not just hire a ghoul, he'll be grateful for the job opportunity. for sure the cheapest way to arrange astral sight into your corp guard team
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 17 2010, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE (Makki @ Jul 17 2010, 09:44 AM) *
they are in Street Magic, of course. but they're pretty expensive. why not just hire a ghoul, he'll be grateful for the job opportunity. for sure the cheapest way to arrange astral sight into your corp guard team

Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

As for the compounds that grant spells, what Magic Attribute does the mundane human use to cast them?

BTW it takes a magician 28 days to make one dose of a magical compound. Hardly something that is widely used.
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Muspellsheimr
post Jul 17 2010, 11:14 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 02:33 AM) *
As for the compounds that grant spells, what Magic Attribute does the mundane human use to cast them?

They don't.

Most of those compounds are effectively useless unless you are already awakened.
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Hagga
post Jul 17 2010, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 08:33 AM) *
Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

As for the compounds that grant spells, what Magic Attribute does the mundane human use to cast them?

BTW it takes a magician 28 days to make one dose of a magical compound. Hardly something that is widely used.


Hardly; if the ghoul entertained himself by, say, making out with or chewing on other team members there might be a problem with infection.

And nothing says they can't make plenty of doses in multiple enchanting workshops, rather than just the one circulation.
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 17 2010, 12:13 PM
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QUOTE (Hagga @ Jul 17 2010, 01:34 PM) *
Hardly; if the ghoul entertained himself by, say, making out with or chewing on other team members there might be a problem with infection.
By RAW even if the ghoul only touches another team member that team member has to resist infection, at which he won't succeed unless he burns (group) edge.

QUOTE (Hagga @ Jul 17 2010, 01:34 PM) *
And nothing says they can't make plenty of doses in multiple enchanting workshops, rather than just the one circulation.
I beg to differ:
QUOTE ('Street Magic p. 88')
Only one dose of a magical compound may be created at a time. The magician brings together the ingredients in a special 28-day circulation, at the end of which she makes an Enchanting + Magic (4) Test. If successful, the magician has one dose of the magical compound; should the test fail or the circulation be interrupted, the ingredients are wasted.

It does not say only one dose at a time per workshop. The number of workshops has no impact on the number of doses.
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Heath Robinson
post Jul 17 2010, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 09:33 AM) *
Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

You get a second generation Ghoul, then. When you're born as a Ghoul, you're not actually a carrier for the Ghilani strain.

QUOTE (Page 77 @ Runner's Companion)
Characters that are born Infected are not carriers and cannot pass the virus on to others, though their children may still be born Infected.
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 17 2010, 12:26 PM
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OK, I forgot about that loophole. The question though is, are there so many more 2nd generation Ghouls than there are people with Astral Perception? Do the Corps actually need that many watchers that this abundance is worth the extra cost for the special diet? Can the PR-department justify the employment of such dangerous elements to the public? Can you actually prove if a ghoul is 2nd generation?

To me this is still too much hassle for too little gain.
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LurkerOutThere
post Jul 17 2010, 12:43 PM
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Everytime someone bringing up the PR effects of a corporations actions as a reason not to do it I just have to laugh a bit maniacally. It's really disturbing my co-workers.
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Stormdrake
post Jul 17 2010, 01:47 PM
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These are all great ideas and I will use more than one. However, I was asking about the fetishes that had one off trigger combo's of detect magic / mana barrier worked into them that was so popular for Aztechnology security in 3rd edition. Has it surfaced again in 4th? They also did things like detect bullet / bullet barrier and my favorite detect enemy / Armor.
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Traul
post Jul 17 2010, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 10:33 AM) *
Because the ghoul [...] has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

Just allow him to "eat at work". That's a strong incentive to do his job right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
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Heath Robinson
post Jul 17 2010, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 01:26 PM) *
Can you actually prove if a ghoul is 2nd generation?

Just take saliva and blood samples, then check them for HMHVV. There are tests for it, from what I read. You're actually looking for non-infectivity rather than a second generation ghoul per se. It just happens that all (or most, at least) second generation ghouls are non-infectious.

Testing for non-infectivity is more important than testing for second generation status.
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 17 2010, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (Traul @ Jul 17 2010, 03:48 PM) *
Just allow him to "eat at work". That's a string incentive to do his job right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)
And where do you get all the human flesh to feed the one ghoul in each security patrol? Someone has yet to prove that ghouls, especially sapient ones, are easier to come by than awakened people with astral perception.


QUOTE (Heath Robinson @ Jul 17 2010, 03:56 PM) *
Just take saliva and blood samples, then check them for HMHVV. There are tests for it, from what I read. You're actually looking for non-infectivity rather than a second generation ghoul per se. It just happens that all (or most, at least) second generation ghouls are non-infectious.

Testing for non-infectivity is more important than testing for second generation status.
right, I guess there should be such tests. Can't remember reading about them though.
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tagz
post Jul 17 2010, 02:28 PM
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If you want to add a little magic security without going overboard try adding some anchored spells to vital locations. While not the best PC ability, it's a great GM tool. Can allow for some magic threats without having to resort to mages and spirits on a site.

You can anchor illusion spells to misdirect intruders, place a combat spell with a detection trigger as a trap, etc. Just be mindful of how you set them up, they wouldn't be set in any manner that would interfere with day to day operations or seriously inhibit regular security.
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Traul
post Jul 17 2010, 02:39 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 04:17 PM) *
And where do you get all the human flesh to feed the one ghoul in each security patrol?

Most runners are SINless, and one team is plenty of meat. The evil smileye was there for a reason.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 17 2010, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 01:33 AM) *
Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

As for the compounds that grant spells, what Magic Attribute does the mundane human use to cast them?

BTW it takes a magician 28 days to make one dose of a magical compound. Hardly something that is widely used.


The stats are based upon the Mundane's Essence Rating... The lower their Essence, the less effective they will be...

And Yes... 28 Days Circulation for a Single Dose... But nothing syas that you cannot work on multiple circulations at a Time... For Example... A Kit allows a Single Dose, A Shop can create up to 10 Doses and a Facility can create up to 50 Doses... this is described in the relevant Section in Arsenal for creating "Doses" of home Brewed substances, whether it be a Chemical, an Explosive, or Magical Compound (In general, Successes over the threshold create another Dose up the the capacity of the tools used (Paraphrased of course). Magical Compounds have a somewhat different target threshold, as they will only ever produce a single dose per circulation. You can, of course, have multiple individuals using the tools at the same time, obviously.

Hope that this helps...
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Jul 17 2010, 03:16 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 17 2010, 05:13 AM) *
I beg to differ:

It does not say only one dose at a time per workshop. The number of workshops has no impact on the number of doses.



No begging is necessary...

Are you trying to tell me that only a single does, EVER, can be created at a time? Really? Kind of sucks for the corporations then doesn't it... How do they go about negotiating which shop, in which city, gets to create that one dose each month?

It is plainly obvious that a given cirdculation may only provide 1 Dose... however, I could run 10 Ciculations simultaneously in a shop to create 10 doese per month if I so chose to do so as an Enchanter... each circulation will create just that... 1 Single Dose... but since I am running 10 Circulations that month, I can have 10 Doese, because that is the limits of my Shop per the Rules in Arsenal...
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Kumo
post Jul 17 2010, 03:26 PM
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Well, if the guarded facility itself is a source of fresh meat (black clinic, for example) there is no problem with feeding ghouls.
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