My players have some pretty heavy magic hitters in the game and I am looking at upping the opponents abilities without turning them all into mages. Can some one go over or tell me the page number where it deals with detect/barrier spells and how they work?

Check manatech in Arsenal, p. 64.

Bound guardian or guidance spirits are a corps best friend when it comes to stoping hostile magic on their holdings. Manatech is good for detecting magic or astral intrusion but it's active countermeasures tend to have really scary drawbacks.

I was reading the old Atzlan book and they mentioned detection/barrier fetishes for one off protection of mundane security. Its a trigger combination but can't remember where they talk about it in 4th edition.

You could add some paranormal critters. A Merlin Hawk might come in handy. Just don't go adding a lot of extremely endangered species. Some of the species are only in the double digits as a world wide population.

Also to corps that don't have to go through the red tape it is cheaper to switch to heavy weapons then to hire their own mages. Wile I can't see them switching to heavy lasers, I can see them switching to heavy machine guns. They are not THAT expensive.

Also you could hand out Lucifer Lights to every guard with a gun. The can be used to spot astral targets but have many false positives. Plus they are expensive to keep running per hour because they burn out so fast and are expensive.

Also there are magical drugs. I think the supply is to limited for even a corp to give it to many of its people, but someone sent to take the runners out might see to getting their team some of these.

Sage- The mixture grants the critter power of Innate Spell
(Detect Magic, Extended) and a +1 Perception increase.

Spirit Strength- This compound grants the critter powers of Hardened
Armor 5, Mystic Armor 5, and one enhanced sense of the
gamemaster’s choice.

Witch’s Moss-Grants the critter power Innate Spell (Petrify). This one is probably not very useful.

I believe Nimue's Salamanders are not that uncommon and their ability to drain magic is snifty.

The higher class corpsec could have their own paranimal pets. Nothing keeps spellcasters busy like demon rats, stealthy little buggers.

Badmoodguy,
What book did these drugs come out of?

they are in Street Magic, of course. but they're pretty expensive. why not just hire a ghoul, he'll be grateful for the job opportunity. for sure the cheapest way to arrange astral sight into your corp guard team

Because the ghoul would infect all other personnel, and has to eat human flesh! It sounds like a pretty dumb idea.

As for the compounds that grant spells, what Magic Attribute does the mundane human use to cast them?

BTW it takes a magician 28 days to make one dose of a magical compound. Hardly something that is widely used.

They don't.

Most of those compounds are effectively useless unless you are already awakened.

Hardly; if the ghoul entertained himself by, say, making out with or chewing on other team members there might be a problem with infection.

And nothing says they can't make plenty of doses in multiple enchanting workshops, rather than just the one circulation.

By RAW even if the ghoul only touches another team member that team member has to resist infection, at which he won't succeed unless he burns (group) edge.

I beg to differ:

It does not say only one dose at a time per workshop. The number of workshops has no impact on the number of doses.

You get a second generation Ghoul, then. When you're born as a Ghoul, you're not actually a carrier for the Ghilani strain.

OK, I forgot about that loophole. The question though is, are there so many more 2nd generation Ghouls than there are people with Astral Perception? Do the Corps actually need that many watchers that this abundance is worth the extra cost for the special diet? Can the PR-department justify the employment of such dangerous elements to the public? Can you actually prove if a ghoul is 2nd generation?

To me this is still too much hassle for too little gain.

Everytime someone bringing up the PR effects of a corporations actions as a reason not to do it I just have to laugh a bit maniacally. It's really disturbing my co-workers.

These are all great ideas and I will use more than one. However, I was asking about the fetishes that had one off trigger combo's of detect magic / mana barrier worked into them that was so popular for Aztechnology security in 3rd edition. Has it surfaced again in 4th? They also did things like detect bullet / bullet barrier and my favorite detect enemy / Armor.

Just allow him to "eat at work". That's a strong incentive to do his job right

Just take saliva and blood samples, then check them for HMHVV. There are tests for it, from what I read. You're actually looking for non-infectivity rather than a second generation ghoul per se. It just happens that all (or most, at least) second generation ghouls are non-infectious.

Testing for non-infectivity is more important than testing for second generation status.

And where do you get all the human flesh to feed the one ghoul in each security patrol? Someone has yet to prove that ghouls, especially sapient ones, are easier to come by than awakened people with astral perception.


right, I guess there should be such tests. Can't remember reading about them though.

If you want to add a little magic security without going overboard try adding some anchored spells to vital locations. While not the best PC ability, it's a great GM tool. Can allow for some magic threats without having to resort to mages and spirits on a site.

You can anchor illusion spells to misdirect intruders, place a combat spell with a detection trigger as a trap, etc. Just be mindful of how you set them up, they wouldn't be set in any manner that would interfere with day to day operations or seriously inhibit regular security.

Most runners are SINless, and one team is plenty of meat. The evil smileye was there for a reason.

The stats are based upon the Mundane's Essence Rating... The lower their Essence, the less effective they will be...

And Yes... 28 Days Circulation for a Single Dose... But nothing syas that you cannot work on multiple circulations at a Time... For Example... A Kit allows a Single Dose, A Shop can create up to 10 Doses and a Facility can create up to 50 Doses... this is described in the relevant Section in Arsenal for creating "Doses" of home Brewed substances, whether it be a Chemical, an Explosive, or Magical Compound (In general, Successes over the threshold create another Dose up the the capacity of the tools used (Paraphrased of course). Magical Compounds have a somewhat different target threshold, as they will only ever produce a single dose per circulation. You can, of course, have multiple individuals using the tools at the same time, obviously.

Hope that this helps...

No begging is necessary...

Are you trying to tell me that only a single does, EVER, can be created at a time? Really? Kind of sucks for the corporations then doesn't it... How do they go about negotiating which shop, in which city, gets to create that one dose each month?

It is plainly obvious that a given cirdculation may only provide 1 Dose... however, I could run 10 Ciculations simultaneously in a shop to create 10 doese per month if I so chose to do so as an Enchanter... each circulation will create just that... 1 Single Dose... but since I am running 10 Circulations that month, I can have 10 Doese, because that is the limits of my Shop per the Rules in Arsenal...

Well, if the guarded facility itself is a source of fresh meat (black clinic, for example) there is no problem with feeding ghouls.

Why does it always have to be about race?

Heheheh...

If the ghoul is second gen, then its 'infertile' as far as its capacity to infect goes. That would be easy to determine with a fairly simple medical test. As far as feeding them goes, the corp if it has any sort of medical facilities will have access to metahuman surgical scraps, or worst case senario, medical grade clones. Really its not as bad an idea as you think. Plus when you consider the social pressures places on ghouls, you'll likely get away without having to pay them too much, which is a problem they would have with virtually every other sapient entity with astral sight.

If they are ork ghouls you can always breed more of them, and its not so much about rarity, as 'cost'. A ghoul is a rather persecuted member of society meaning grossly depressed wages compared to most other awakened.


Take the 'cost' out of the ghouls salary if you have to, but really, they're eating the medical waste the corp is generating from is surgical wards, I don't see there being a 'cost' to their diet.


Given all the bleeding heart ghoul lovers, ya. Pretty easily.


A simple antibody test would determine if they had the virus in their body fluids. You could not prove they were second gen, but you could prove whether or not they were infectious.


I think you are over complicating the 'hassle' and not looking for the simple solutions.

No. If you want to play with RAW, it says one at a time. It doesn't specify wether it is completely, one, anywhere, ever at a time in circulation, period or wether just one per circulation.

I seem to recall something stating that ghouls need to eat a small amount (5lbs?) a week of flesh, but can't seem to find a reference in 4th edition to back that up. Anyone know of where that came from?

As for PR? That's easy. The facility is attempting to create an artificial substitute for a Ghoul's dietary requirement to meet the challenge put forth by the late President Dunkelzahn. To further assist our volunteer subjects in assimilating into society, we have given them jobs at our research facility. The lack of a breakthrough in the metabolic front has been offset by tremendous progress our subjects have been making on the social front. Click here for the full story.

Eww. Double post.

If the facility is a top-secret black project, corps don't have to worry about PR - security is more important (the "evil" project alone is enough to put them into deep shit). So all they need to do is to cut a deal with tribe of ghouls, build a secret and secure lab in a middle of ghouls' territory, put a personnel inside, and pretend that "nobody's here! Only us... ghouls!"
Piece of cake.

I can actually see a special facility guarded by a ghoul team itself. Sod beware of the dogs, beware of the guards who are paid sod all but allowed to eat you.

"DO NOT ENTER.
The guards are BAD and the owner is even WORSE."

Anchoring was the thing I was looking for. Little different in 4th from 3rd but still viable. A corp mage whips up a few anchoring foci for the local mundane security forces. Example, the anchoring foci has an active detect magic spell running as a trigger and a Mana barrier spell as the reactive part. Yes I know it costs karma but if you are working with the alternate rule of "cash for karma" then corporate security would be the group to have these toys. I could also see high end corporate executives having a few handed to them to make extractions a real pain in the butt.

Can anybody tell me if detect magic works for detecting possessing spirits?

I guess it's a judgment call. It all depends on whether you still consider the composite entity of spirit+vessel a spirit or an awakened critter. the former is detectable the latter isn't.

Don't see why it would not. If the spirit is masking then you could have a problem.

In fact, if I recall correctly, a number of the mundane NPCs in Ghost Cartels have anchored spells on various things. Didn't one of them have Shattershield anchored to a bag of mojo stuff?

Has any houseruling been done on costs of quickened spells? Anybody have any idea how much they would cost?

Not that I know of. Why would that be necessary?

In the event that a mundane chatacter would want to buy a quickened spell from an awakened character. I could see trid starlets doing things like buying quickened healthy glow. Or shadowrunners buying all sorts of useful quickened spells.

It does not work: Healthy glow is not a sustained spell. Your starlet will just have to visit her magical beauty salon on a regular basis.

So that's where Horizon's magical assets all went.

I'm sure there's a sustained version out there somewhere.

Physical Mask?

Just use the spell creation rules to make it sustained instead of instant. Sure you take a -2 while sustaining it, but that's what quickenening is for eh?

I am using the optional rule of "cash for Karma" in conjunction with anchoring with pretty good results

I'll definitely talk to my GM about that one.

Can anybody think of how mindlinking two creatures that aren't yourself would work? Maybe a variant of quickened spells or possibly a custom enchantment?