Disallowed in Your Game Options

[Irion]

Heightened Concentration is not game breaking in my opinion... it is not the "Be-all, end-all power" for everyone to have. Will there be some mystic adepts that have this ability, sure, but there are a lot of useful adept powers depending upon your character concept. Hell, I prefer adepts and Mystic Adepts, and yet, I have NEVER had a single one take this power... not yet anyways...

Sorry, but:
You ain't believing that yourself, do you?

Take just sustaining increase Attribute (reaktion) + increased Reflex.
So thist takes you to +3 INI, +3 INI-Passes and + maxed out Reaction.
Which is obvious better than the adept power for 4 Powerpoints.
So you have exchanged 3 Powerpoints for 10 Karma. Not a bad deal. An as the game goes on it is getting better and better and better.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Sorry, but:
You ain't believing that yourself, do you?

Take just sustaining increase Attribute (reaktion) + increased Reflex.
So thist takes you to +3 INI, +3 INI-Passes and + maxed out Reaction.
Which is obvious better than the adept power for 4 Powerpoints.
So you have exchanged 3 Powerpoints for 10 Karma. Not a bad deal. An as the game goes on it is getting better and better and better.

Well technically lets say you are sustaining 3 force 6 spells, that saves 12 karma apiece or 36 karma. And that is for 1 PP. How much does it cost to improve your magic so you got that PP for "free" Assuming you currently have a 6 magic, you need to initiate so lets say 8 karma(its around here after groups etc.) but the magic attribute will cost you 35 karma. So 43 karma to pay for saving 36 karma and it has other uses. .

For this purpose alone it does not seem inherently broken, but it covers a wide range of additional effects and it also saves wads of cash. I'm not sure I'd go with TJs ruling, but I am biased against it since it grates on me that a mystic adept with the adept power sustains and maintains spells better than a pure mage.

[X-Kalibur]

I think the big rub that makes it feel unreasonable is that you can make it with a BP build, no initiation required.

In fact, what most people consider when looking at a potential for a broken mechanic seems to be "Can this be done right out of the gate?"

[Mäx]

In fact, what most people consider when looking at a potential for a broken mechanic seems to be "Can this be done right out of the gate?"

Well ofcource, as its not nearly as bad if somethink is broken but you need 327 points of karma to get it then if you can get it at chargen.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I think the big rub that makes it feel unreasonable is that you can make it with a BP build, no initiation required.

In fact, what most people consider when looking at a potential for a broken mechanic seems to be "Can this be done right out of the gate?"

That is true, and money/availability is something you can deal with a GM in game. So making it hard to get force 6 sustaining focuses is feasible since they are like availability 24 or something.

Heck and you can start off with a sustaining focus with this build. Take increase attribute reaction, combat sense, and deflection as known spells sustain all 3 and have 21 dice to dodge, put your sustaining focus into gear for the increase reflexes spell.

Damn I almost want to try and abuse this now, see how long it takes until a frozen cow drops on me from orbit.

[Mordinvan]

Damn I almost want to try and abuse this now, see how long it takes until a frozen cow drops on me from orbit.

But with an extra 21 dice, you'd likely 'dodge' it anyway.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Sorry, but:
You ain't believing that yourself, do you?

Take just sustaining increase Attribute (reaktion) + increased Reflex.
So thist takes you to +3 INI, +3 INI-Passes and + maxed out Reaction.
Which is obvious better than the adept power for 4 Powerpoints.
So you have exchanged 3 Powerpoints for 10 Karma. Not a bad deal. An as the game goes on it is getting better and better and better.

Sorry But... Yes I am...
Shadowrun makes no real attempts to keep the archtypes balanced... Big Deal...

And as an Adept, I cannot use the Spell, so the spell is useless to me... as a Mystic Adept, I would be stupid to use the Adept powers for Initiative boosters, as the Spell is more effecient...

Anyways...

[Karoline]

Well technically lets say you are sustaining 3 force 6 spells, that saves 12 karma apiece or 36 karma. And that is for 1 PP. How much does it cost to improve your magic so you got that PP for "free" Assuming you currently have a 6 magic, you need to initiate so lets say 8 karma(its around here after groups etc.) but the magic attribute will cost you 35 karma. So 43 karma to pay for saving 36 karma and it has other uses. .

For this purpose alone it does not seem inherently broken, but it covers a wide range of additional effects and it also saves wads of cash. I'm not sure I'd go with TJs ruling, but I am biased against it since it grates on me that a mystic adept with the adept power sustains and maintains spells better than a pure mage.

That's not the full equation though. Remember that when you're at 7 magic you get an extra point worth of penalty negation, which means you can half sustain a 4th spell, not to mention you're now higher magic, which has other benefits, and you initiated, which has several benefits, including a metamagic.

Also don't forget the.. what, 180k? Or is it only 90k? that you saved on foci, and that you aren't at risk of focus addiction, and you have that many more free focus slots to use on other foci.

I mean, the mystic adept is going to spend that 43 karma to increase their magic anyway, so it isn't that great of a direct comparison on cost anyway. This is one of those things (like metamagics) that just keeps getting better and better all on its own without any more effort directed at it.

But yeah, don't really want to start a debat about this here, so I should likely just shut up (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Saint Sithney]

Interesting, that is definitely an obfuscated rule. It certainly implies that it lasts as long as you want, but it at least explicitly states only 1 situational modifier. You can of course then argue that all your sustained spells are only 1 distraction but they are technically 3 seperate entities... most curious indeed.

I'm not sure how you take "task at hand" to be indefinite. That's totally a GM's call, and I really don't see a GM interpreting it that way.

As to if you can bundle the same kind of penalty together as a single kind of penalty, yeah, that's up in the air as well.
I'd say it depends a lot on the first part, regarding how often you have to spend a Complex action to re-up your concentration.

So, if my conception of a task is, "kill my way through this sec team," then I'd probably not allow stacking of similar penalties.
If the determination of a task was, "cast this combat spell," then I suppose I'd let similar penalties stack.

[Mordinvan]

So, how long until we get some kind of official word on how that adept power was intended to work, so we can use it properly, and have an actual discussion about how OP, or garbage it is?

[Karoline]

So, how long until we get some kind of official word on how that adept power was intended to work, so we can use it properly, and have an actual discussion about how OP, or garbage it is?

I think the freeze death of the universe will happen first (Curse you dark energy!)

[Saint Sithney]

Well, as I remember it, Bobby D. wrote the Digital Grimoire, so you could just ask him for a ruling. That's as official as you're ever going to get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Mordinvan]

I think the freeze death of the universe will happen first (Curse you dark energy!)

Ya, not one of the best revelations of physics of the last century. I'd rather die in a big crunch, then freeze to death in deep space, and have my atoms pulled apart by a rapidly expanding universe.

[Ancient History]

Well, as I remember it, Bobby D. wrote the Digital Grimoire, so you could just ask him for a ruling. That's as official as you're ever going to get. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

I wrote part of it. As in, the enchanting bits and a few of the spells.

My take on Heightened Concentration is that it removes one specific situational modifier while the power is activated. So saying "vision penalties" or "sustained spells" would be inadequate to me as a game master - I would ask for a specific vision penalty (low light, light mist, etc.) or a specific spell sustain penalty.

The duration of the power is vague because the duration of the penalty may be variable. An adept that walks into a pitch-black warehouse and uses Heightened Concentration to remove the blind-fighting penalty does not magically become able to see, and under the circumstances might be able to activate the power once and have it remain on for several rounds - provided the lights stay off, or they keep their eyes closed and mirrorshades on. If the penalty suddenly disappears or is no longer applicable, then obviously the power ends or is no longer applicable.

[Tech_Rat]

Things I disallow: House rules. I try to put in to effect as RAW as possible, RAI as the entire table agrees upon if possible, or just say "fuck it for now, this way right now and for this session, I'll figure it out later."

[CanRay]

Disallowed: Bust-A-Moves.

Mainly because I'm scared what I will do with them.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Disallowed: Bust-A-Moves.

Mainly because I'm scared what I will do with them.

Bust a Moves are a definite oddity... I am not a fan of them, be we do not disallow them... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

[Karoline]

Disallowed: Bust-A-Moves.

Mainly because I'm scared what I will do with them.

Let the toy army building commence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[CanRay]

I also think I might disallow cows from entering the game again, but I'm sure the group will end up having to deal with cattle rustling again because that's how my mind goes...

[Karoline]

I also think I might disallow cows from entering the game again, but I'm sure the group will end up having to deal with cattle rustling again because that's how my mind goes...

Anyone else notice how often cattle rustling comes up in the future?

[MortVent]

Anyone else notice how often cattle rustling comes up in the future?

Think of the cost/value of thsoe cows.

They are rare critters in that they require more cost to produce than krill/soy so they become the equivalent of some rare breed of flower at your florist.

Sure you can get a dozen daisys/roses because everyone grows them, but if you want a weeping orchid (made up name I think) you got to call around an pay a pretty penny

[Karoline]

Yeah, that's true, but I figure beef would be in high enough demand that they would be like roses. Sure they're expensive, but they aren't 'rare'.

The cost is more based on the fact that you need a bunch of space for them and that they eat alot. I can certainly see them being expensive in the future (I mean, meat is already not exactly cheap), but I don't know that they'd be exactly rare.

[CanRay]

And Cows can have Cybernetics.

Like a transmitter that sends out "I'm being stolen!!!" in AR if it's ever moved beyond the fence.

Man, was my group ever upset about that!

[MortVent]

And Cows can have Cybernetics.

Like a transmitter that sends out "I'm being stolen!!!" in AR if it's ever moved beyond the fence.

Man, was my group ever upset about that!

Warform black angus bull...

[Karoline]

And Cows can have Cybernetics.

Like a transmitter that sends out "I'm being stolen!!!" in AR if it's ever moved beyond the fence.

Man, was my group ever upset about that!

Hey, I'm sure they're worth 10k nuyen each easy. I'd totally expect them to have a stealth RFID or something similar on them.