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CodeBreaker
Anyone who has been on Dumpshock for any decent amount of time is almost sure to of seen a particular phrase at least a few times; I/My GM doesn't allow <Pet Peeve>, be it Technomancers because they make the Matrix "magical", some bit of kit from Augmentation that you don't agree with or the entirety of Unwired because it makes the Matrix too complicated.

So, what I am wondering is what you, or your GM, specifically do not allow in your games, and if possible, why? Sate my curiosity!
MortVent
Jerks, drama queens, etc..

Oh and..under no circumstances: weak stomachs

StealthSigma
Penile Implants in unusual places.

Well, he hasn't expressed forbid it. He's just expressed a very strong disapproval of it and the implant in general.
imperialus
I don't disallow anything. I have a few things I recommend avoiding but like I said to my players at the beginning of the campaign:

Shadowrun can be broken. It's not even that hard. When you make your characters ask yourself "Is this ridiculous? Will it piss Dave off?" If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then I would recommend against doing it. If the answer is "Maybe" then call and ask. If you forge ahead regardless, that's fine, just remember that I know the rules better than you, and every one trick pony has a counter.
Doc Chase
Goat eyes.

In my games, goats don't have eyes.
DireRadiant
I disallow fun.
AStarshipforAnts
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 20 2010, 01:24 PM) *
Goat eyes.

In my games, goats don't have eyes.

Spoilsport.
SpellBinder
For the current campaign I'm running I disallowed the races out of RC, largely because the players are relative newbies to shadowrun in general and didn't want to overwhelm them with the variants, infected, and the near infinite options of being a changeling. That, and one of them would have gone so far pink mohawk he would have ruined things for the others if he got what he wanted.
BlueMax
QUOTE (imperialus @ Jul 20 2010, 09:23 AM) *
I don't disallow anything. I have a few things I recommend avoiding but like I said to my players at the beginning of the campaign:

Shadowrun can be broken. It's not even that hard. When you make your characters ask yourself "Is this ridiculous? Will it piss Dave off?" If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then I would recommend against doing it. If the answer is "Maybe" then call and ask. If you forge ahead regardless, that's fine, just remember that I know the rules better than you, and every one trick pony has a counter.

Wait, your name is "Dave"?
/me starts looking for a follow feature.

We have three Dave's in our group and a two Dave minimum.

My only issue with OTP is those who whine like little children when I OTP them back.
"Well Hello Mana Static!"

BlueMax
/who was being childish too.
MortVent
the only real thing I disallow/ignore is the rule where TM's have to learn cracking/electronics twice..

I also tend to play loose with char creation rules, if they can come up with a good reasoning for the character having something
Doc Chase
I tend to do the same. I'm also a lot easier on folks who are still learning the system.
Witch
I banned (or rather, significantly nerfed) the Emotitoy my Hacker player wanted.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Witch @ Jul 20 2010, 06:52 PM) *
I banned (or rather, significantly nerfed) the Emotitoy my Hacker player wanted.


I still don't get those.
MortVent
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jul 20 2010, 12:55 PM) *
I still don't get those.


check out the android receptionist in japan iirc, it can recognize a bit of emotions based on facial recognition software and respond appropriately.

Emotitoys strike me as mini drones designed to react to thier owner's emotional state, but eaisly reprogrammed to work on others
Laodicea
Chronically overcasting Mystic Adepts.
Johnny B. Good
QUOTE (MortVent @ Jul 20 2010, 06:00 PM) *
check out the android receptionist in japan iirc, it can recognize a bit of emotions based on facial recognition software and respond appropriately.

Emotitoys strike me as mini drones designed to react to thier owner's emotional state, but eaisly reprogrammed to work on others


I've heard of Johnsons putting bullets in those when they see em'.
Warlordtheft
Day-job and Sinner flaws. Too many players took them not realizing that either was recipe for disaster and I got tired of having to ignore the flaws lest the party get screwed.
stevebugge
Currently banned: Pretty much nothing

Things we should ban: Middle Aged Male Players with Angsty Goth Teenage Female Characters. It was funny once, now it's getting disturbing.
deek
The only thing I have banned is the Technomancer. Initially, it was because I hadn't read up on it enough and didn't want my players running amok with something I hadn't taken the time to understand, mechanically. In my second campaign, I use the Emergence timeline as a backdrop, so I didn't want anyone to play one until that campaign arc was finished.

We never finished that campaign, so I guess Technos are still banned.

There's currently a player ban on any full-time hackers, so by default, Technos aren't like to get any play time at my table.
Fauxknight
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Jul 20 2010, 01:16 PM) *
I've heard of Johnsons putting bullets in those when they see em'.


Which is why your face should put down the nuyen for the full empathy software suite instead of the toy, costs more, but its a lot harder to notice someone running a program on thier headware.
MortVent
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Jul 20 2010, 01:16 PM) *
I've heard of Johnsons putting bullets in those when they see em'.


Usually taken as an attack on the runners, and results in return fire.

Mr J if he survives will also have a bad reputation as impulsive.

After all nothing prevents runners from running emotion software using thier gear as input for the same effect, same with lie detection spells/software.

CodeBreaker
QUOTE (Fauxknight @ Jul 20 2010, 07:26 PM) *
Which is why your face should put down the nuyen for the full empathy software suite instead of the toy, costs more, but its a lot harder to notice someone running a program on thier headware.


Or why your Technomancer should thread it up and run it through their eyes. Most Technos should have a decent Charisma anyway, they make fairly good back up Faces grinbig.gif
Johnny B. Good
QUOTE (MortVent @ Jul 20 2010, 06:26 PM) *
Usually taken as an attack on the runners, and results in return fire.

Mr J if he survives will also have a bad reputation as impulsive.

After all nothing prevents runners from running emotion software using thier gear as input for the same effect, same with lie detection spells/software.


Honestly if I was a J and the face put an emotitoy on the table, I would either make him get rid of it or I walk. Or if I was an asshole and I had my corpsec goons with me, I'd shoot it (Or crowbar it).

If you're going to use emotion software at least do it covertly. The difference between walking in a corp facility holding a SMG in plain sight and walking in a corp facility with a ceramic SMG in a smuggling compartment is everything. Clearly trying to take advantage of a social situation is no different.
Johnny B. Good
QUOTE (CodeBreaker @ Jul 20 2010, 06:32 PM) *
Or why your Technomancer should thread it up and run it through their eyes. Most Technos should have a decent Charisma anyway, they make fairly good back up Faces grinbig.gif


I don't understand being able to thread things outside of specifically matrix actions. Technomancers can thread because they have an intuitive understanding of how computers work, not because they know blue magic. It makes sense that they'd be able to thread an Exploit, as it finds flaws in firewall code. Empathy software, which is an algorithm for reading faces and analyzing pheromones, not so much.
MortVent
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Jul 20 2010, 02:33 PM) *
Honestly if I was a J and the face put an emotitoy on the table, I would either make him get rid of it or I walk. Or if I was an asshole and I had my corpsec goons with me, I'd shoot it (Or crowbar it).

If you're going to use emotion software at least do it covertly. The difference between walking in a corp facility holding a SMG in plain sight and walking in a corp facility with a ceramic SMG in a smuggling compartment is everything. Clearly trying to take advantage of a social situation is no different.


So you would shoot someone's keychain? Read the description the things are necklaces, bracelets, keychains, etc.. especially the non-mobile ones

It's not an smg, it's in effect throwing a fit because someone has a toy that might give them an edge.

I guarantee the Mr J is going to have one or more as well, maybe even a full rtg 6 one on him.

Apathy
Players
Johnny B. Good
QUOTE (MortVent @ Jul 20 2010, 06:40 PM) *
So you would shoot someone's keychain? Read the description the things are necklaces, bracelets, keychains, etc.. especially the non-mobile ones

It's not an smg, it's in effect throwing a fit because someone has a toy that might give them an edge.

I guarantee the Mr J is going to have one or more as well, maybe even a full rtg 6 one on him.


If it was cleverly disguised as a necklace, that's one thing. But if I see the face clearly using an emotitoy, it makes me think that the runners are arrogant and trying to take advantage of me. Now this isn't exactly out-of-place behavior for runners, but the clear audacity of the runners to try to obviously take advantage would piss Mr. J off. And more frequently than not, Mr. J has a lot more bargaining power.
galvatron42
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but I have a question. I saw mention that the Sinner flaw was banned by someone for being a recipie for disaster. I've not played in many, many years, and never played more than a few games then. I've recently made characters for my events at Gencon and one of them took the SINNER flaw. What are the major problems with this flaw? Should I look into switching it out with something else? I wanted my chatracter to have a criminal SIN from doing time for stealing motorcycles as a kid. Don't want to cause any major problems for my character or the group though. Thanks.
stevebugge
QUOTE (galvatron42 @ Jul 20 2010, 11:04 AM) *
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but I have a question. I saw mention that the Sinner flaw was banned by someone for being a recipie for disaster. I've not played in many, many years, and never played more than a few games then. I've recently made characters for my events at Gencon and one of them took the SINNER flaw. What are the major problems with this flaw? Should I look into switching it out with something else? I wanted my chatracter to have a criminal SIN from doing time for stealing motorcycles as a kid. Don't want to cause any major problems for my character or the group though. Thanks.


Probably the single biggest in game problem would be the fact that you can be identified much more easily than the SINless can. You exist, you are tracked in credit reports, medical statistics, census, data, all sorts of things. If you have a criminal SIN they have all of that plus a DNA and Actual fingerprint.
MortVent
QUOTE (galvatron42 @ Jul 20 2010, 03:04 PM) *
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but I have a question. I saw mention that the Sinner flaw was banned by someone for being a recipie for disaster. I've not played in many, many years, and never played more than a few games then. I've recently made characters for my events at Gencon and one of them took the SINNER flaw. What are the major problems with this flaw? Should I look into switching it out with something else? I wanted my chatracter to have a criminal SIN from doing time for stealing motorcycles as a kid. Don't want to cause any major problems for my character or the group though. Thanks.


Sinner isn't really that bad in of itself, you just have a sin in the system that can be pulled up if captured or you don't take basic precautions on runs.

Data balkanization works in your favor a bit, since if you got a SIN from say Evo they are not likely to share much if any data with Aztechnology.

The other thing is, if you have any fake SINs the data can show up for them if you leave evidence or are captured.

So unless everyone goes totally sinless there is a record of them out there to be pulled up.


As for day job, depends a lot on the job. I've done riggers/hackers/etc with it that do tutoring/research (including one that actually used agents to do the work >;3 )
galvatron42
For the character that took the SINNER drawback, I bought a fake SIN that I thought he would use in place of his real SIN with the criminal history. Is that an option, or should I just drop the quality all together?
sabs
that's actually the whole point of fake SiN's and Sinner


MortVent
QUOTE (Johnny B. Good @ Jul 20 2010, 02:54 PM) *
If it was cleverly disguised as a necklace, that's one thing. But if I see the face clearly using an emotitoy, it makes me think that the runners are arrogant and trying to take advantage of me. Now this isn't exactly out-of-place behavior for runners, but the clear audacity of the runners to try to obviously take advantage would piss Mr. J off. And more frequently than not, Mr. J has a lot more bargaining power.


It's not disquised as anything, it's designed to be worn as a necklace, bracelet, keychain, etc by default.

The exception is the mobile ones and the animatronics

QUOTE
Emotitoys: Emotitoys are sophisticated electronic toys programmed with empathy soft ware (see p. 60) to recognize metahuman body language and facial expressions, thus giving them a limited ability to sense emotions and react appropriately, based on their purpose.

Due to aggressive marketing campaigns by Aztechnology, Horizon, and other corps, emotitoys are extremely popular even among adults, with hipsters everywhere sporting emotitoys that dangle from their commlinks or climb around their clothing. Emotitoys come in a wide variety of styles, such as the gothic Grue, the cheerful Chirpichu, and the colorful Moodwyrm. Some are animatronic but nonmobile, while others are functional minidrones.

Shadowrunners have also embraced the emotitoy craze, bringing their “friends” along to meets to get an edge during negotiations, using the toy’s sensors and empathy soft ware to get a read on the other side.
Karoline
There are two simple answers to the emotitoy. The first is that the J also has a rating 6 one, so they cancel out and are pointless.

The second is that anyone who notices you use them in a professional setting gets so pissed that you suffer a -6 penalty.

The things really are one of the worse additions to the game I've ever seen. The emotion software itself isn't so bad because running it on a commlink requires a top of the line system and response, but getting the software cheaper by putting it on some stupid little drone is just inane.

As for TMs threading it, I'd say they should be able to so long as they've seen it before, just like skillsofts.
DrZaius
Stick-n-Shock ammo. Most "Incompetence" Negative Qualities. Several "Allergy" Negative Qualities. Most of the cheese stuff.
Karoline
QUOTE (DrZaius @ Jul 20 2010, 03:33 PM) *
Stick-n-Shock ammo. Most "Incompetence" Negative Qualities. Several "Allergy" Negative Qualities. Most of the cheese stuff.


Mmm, cheese. If I run a game I'm more likely to simply house rule SnS ammo as opposed to disallowing it entirely.
For the incompetence stuff, it has to be something that can be done without training (So no hacking incompetence, no diving or parachuting incompetence)
Allergies are fine so long as they aren't silly, or I'll be just as silly in the adventure I run (You need to get something from a "Your allergy here" factory.)
MortVent
Allergies can be tricky things

I've had pollutants (nullified by a resperator) and others.

Some are mostly psycosomatic on the mild range for rare things (like gold, silver for most)
DrZaius
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jul 20 2010, 04:37 PM) *
Mmm, cheese. If I run a game I'm more likely to simply house rule SnS ammo as opposed to disallowing it entirely.
For the incompetence stuff, it has to be something that can be done without training (So no hacking incompetence, no diving or parachuting incompetence)
Allergies are fine so long as they aren't silly, or I'll be just as silly in the adventure I run (You need to get something from a "Your allergy here" factory.)


I'd probably allow common allergies, it's the "Allergy: Gold" type stuff I'm trying to avoid nyahnyah.gif

Also, I'm just going to say right now "I don't care" to the 10 people who post after this, "Well, Gold is actually pretty common in 2070.."

EDIT: I don't care mainly because anytime I introduce Gold into my game, I feel like I'm forcing it to make a player pay for their allergy. I'd prefer not to expend the effort only to piss a person off.
Karoline
QUOTE (DrZaius @ Jul 20 2010, 03:52 PM) *
I'd probably allow common allergies, it's the "Allergy: Gold" type stuff I'm trying to avoid nyahnyah.gif

Your first mission will be to steal the golden statue from the gold foundry downtown.

I don't know that gold would be all that common, and more importantly, it is easy to avoid. It isn't like pollen. Pollen is rare, generally only being a problem in the spring/summer, but when it is around, it is nearly impossible to avoid.
Traul
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jul 20 2010, 10:37 PM) *
For the incompetence stuff, it has to be something that can be done without training (So no hacking incompetence, no diving or parachuting incompetence)

All of those can be done without training per RAW. That's what the defaulting rule is for. I agree that Incompetent(Hacking) is pretty cheesy, but for diving or parachuting you can put the runners in a bad situation too.

"So, since you cannot use scuba like everyone else, you can rent a pocket submarine for the low low price of 5000Y. What? The run pays 6000Y?"
stevebugge
QUOTE (Karoline @ Jul 20 2010, 02:04 PM) *
Your first mission will be to steal the golden statue from the gold foundry downtown.

I don't know that gold would be all that common, and more importantly, it is easy to avoid. It isn't like pollen. Pollen is rare, generally only being a problem in the spring/summer, but when it is around, it is nearly impossible to avoid.


Gold's combination of corrosion resistance and conductive properties make it very useful in electronics, this is where the argument that it's common comes from. Effectively using the Gold Allergy requires a lot of cooperation between player and GM, and if they are not on the same page about Gold's use and frequency in the game world the Gold Allergy ends up a big problem.

The conflict is usually worst between players who want free build points and GM's who figure that if I wanted to give the players free build points I just would have said here are 425 points build the character.
Traul
QUOTE (stevebugge @ Jul 20 2010, 11:15 PM) *
Gold's combination of corrosion resistance and conductive properties make it very useful in electronics, this is where the argument that it's common comes from.

Most electronics in SR have gone optical.
stevebugge
QUOTE (Traul @ Jul 20 2010, 02:20 PM) *
Most electronics in SR have gone optical.


Somewhere you still need electric current, disect your optical drive (CD or DVD) if you want an idea of just how much gold is still needed in an "optical" electronic device

It's not a ton, but it's more than none at all.
Badmoodguy88
Gold is very non reactive stuff. Silver however is something people get allergic reactions to. People find out about it in real life when they get silver earrings. Nickle causes a problem for some people in the same way.

Gold would still be a dumb allergy to take if you counted Orichalcum as triggering your allergy. As it might being that it is an alloy of gold, silver, copper, and mercury. Also it is a thin coating on many electronic jack connections. Because it is a good connector and prevents corrosion. Logically it could cause problems with cyberware. It would be a hassle to implement the game mechanic but they would probably need to get those contacts in their cyberware stripped and plated with platinum which is vertically the same chemical (even more non reactive, non-corroding, and an excellent conductor).

But it would not make sense for a human to be severely allergic to gold or silver.
czarcasm
The rule of thumb we've always had with the allergies is that a "common" allergy should come up and give a penalty in every, or just about every, run. An "uncommon" allergy is one that wouldn't come up unless the runner went outside his or her comfort zone. Thus, allergies to seawater and pollen would be uncommon in our games, which are always based in cities.
stevebugge
QUOTE (Badmoodguy88 @ Jul 20 2010, 02:24 PM) *
Logically it could cause problems with cyberware. It would be a hassle to implement the game mechanic but they would probably need to get those contacts in their cyberware stripped and plated with platinum which is vertically the same chemical (even more non reactive, non-corroding, and an excellent conductor).

Which would be a good use of the flaw because it would drive up the price of the cyber, but like I said before Player & GM have to be on the same page for it to work.
Warlordtheft
QUOTE (galvatron42 @ Jul 20 2010, 03:04 PM) *
I'm sorry, I know its off topic, but I have a question. I saw mention that the Sinner flaw was banned by someone for being a recipie for disaster. I've not played in many, many years, and never played more than a few games then. I've recently made characters for my events at Gencon and one of them took the SINNER flaw. What are the major problems with this flaw? Should I look into switching it out with something else? I wanted my chatracter to have a criminal SIN from doing time for stealing motorcycles as a kid. Don't want to cause any major problems for my character or the group though. Thanks.



My gripe with the sinner flaw---is that it is either a non-issue cause you took some SOP to make it a non-issue (disguises, multiple fake sins etc) or your screwed cause Johnny with a Sin has broken the law and is now subject to an arrest warrant cuase his fingerprints and DNA were found at the crime scene of a triple homicide and they can track him down and "interrogate" him later. I'll agree with the data balkanization and that helps mitigate things somewhat.

With the day job flaw I have issues with a flaw providing enough income to support the lifestyle. Add the fame quality and things get wonkey.
MortVent
day job barely provides for the lifestyle.

Level 1 - living in a coffin motel w/500 left over
level 2 - low lifestyle w/500 left over
level 3 - middle lifestyle w/nothing left over

If ya working you should get paid, but none of them are going to pay the bills a SR character has in gear/training/etc


Fame is a double edge sword, unless they go out of their way to hide it like a SIN

Imagine richard villars (fame - global) trying to run the shadows.
Stahlseele
raisins *nods sagely*
Karoline
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Jul 20 2010, 04:27 PM) *
My gripe with the sinner flaw---is that it is either a non-issue cause you took some SOP to make it a non-issue (disguises, multiple fake sins etc) or your screwed cause Johnny with a Sin has broken the law and is now subject to an arrest warrant cuase his fingerprints and DNA were found at the crime scene of a triple homicide and they can track him down and "interrogate" him later. I'll agree with the data balkanization and that helps mitigate things somewhat.

With the day job flaw I have issues with a flaw providing enough income to support the lifestyle. Add the fame quality and things get wonkey.


Well, it is only a 5 point flaw. It isn't something that should really require a ton to overcome. And if the person does get found out, it shouldn't be too horrid. They'll still use fake SINs and stuff. They'd likely need to drop everything their real SIN is attached to, but they wouldn't really be all that much worse off than someone without a SIN.
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