Sniper Rifles In Combat, Do they all get borked? Options

[The Grue Master]

On p.319 SR4A it is explained that sniper rifles used in running gunfights tend to break (every combat turn results in an edge test, each failed test incurs a -1 modifier until recalibrated) with the exception of the Walther MA-2100. However, there is no mention of this rule in Arsenal. Some of the guns in Arsenal are described as being for military use, etc, but no mention of this 'sniper rifle hardening' is mentioned. So, is it possible to go about hardening a sniper rifle for use in a firefight? Would melee hardening (p.152 Arsenal) cover this or would that merely prevent the gun from being destroyed by melee attack?

I'm interested in how people generally deal with sniper rifles and their capacity for lethal destruction in their campaigns and what, if any, mods help keep them from breaking in your average runner's gunfight.

[Doc Chase]

The Walther's speshul because the barrel isn't extended like a typical sniper rifle - it's a compact, bullpup, high-accuracy rifle. Don't think melee hardening is going to fix your standard long-barrel 121.

I'm not sure what would happen in a running combat situation. I would figure the target optics get borked, but if you're running a smartlink and cybereyes with image magnification then who cares? You aren't going to knock an eye out.

[kzt]

Using sniper rifles in close combat is dumb. They are called precision rifles for a reason. It's like using a micrometer as a hammer.

They should really suck a lot more then the game portrays as general purpose weapons.

[Doc Chase]

Using sniper rifles in close combat is dumb. They are called precision rifles for a reason. It's like using a micrometer as a hammer.

They should really suck a lot more then the game portrays as general purpose weapons.

I would think the purpose of a weapon is pretty well defined.

Held true in 2nd edition, still holds true today. One of the finest quotes I've ever read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Sludig]

Actually, Melee hardenting would do nothing. Sniper Rifles are precision insturments, finely tuned to be fired from a stable position, not as a Assault Rifle or even a hunting rifle. Floating Barrels, specific ammo, etc. So running with one, and firing will throw off that delicate balance, thus...the rule. Melee Hardening might help if you rifle butt someone, but that will still affect the fine calibration of the rifle.

[The Grue Master]

I agree with what all of you are saying but because a sniper rifle has more AP and a higher DV than any other easily acquired SA gun in the game, they are frequently selected by my players are things to argue with me about. Currently, a sniper rifle is commonly used with high powered optics mounted on the weapon but in SR's future a street sam with cybereyes and a smartlinked rifle can shoot from the hip as accurately as a prone shooter with a rifle rest would today. Because of this potential the desire to turn one of the non-hardened rifles into something akin to the Walther MA-2100 comes up pretty frequently. If there was a short-ranged equivalent of the sniper rifle, with anywhere near the DV or AP, I think people wouldn't feel quite so compelled to use the rifles outside their intended role.

[Doc Chase]

To best emphasize the unwieldy nature of the sniper rifle in close combat, have your players try to play Silent Scope 2 in the arcade. You're talking about a weapon that is all but unconcealable and tends to be highly restricted, so any authority figure is going to bring the hammer down hard on a party of rifle-wielding mooks.

Recall as well, these things are bolt action or semi-auto weapons that could leave them wide open to a countershot after they take their first bead on a tango. But if they really want to traipse around everywhere with a cello case on their back, people are going to start raising eyebrows.

[kzt]

I agree with what all of you are saying but because a sniper rifle has more AP and a higher DV than any other easily acquired SA gun in the game, they are frequently selected by my players are things to argue with me about. Currently, a sniper rifle is commonly used with high powered optics mounted on the weapon but in SR's future a street sam with cybereyes and a smartlinked rifle can shoot from the hip as accurately as a prone shooter with a rifle rest would today. Because of this potential the desire to turn one of the non-hardened rifles into something akin to the Walther MA-2100 comes up pretty frequently. If there was a short-ranged equivalent of the sniper rifle, with anywhere near the DV or AP, I think people wouldn't feel quite so compelled to use the rifles outside their intended role.

The Developers somehow see to think that taking a medium machine gun bullet and shooting it out of a sniper rifle mystically makes it double plus good. Umm, no.

Easy fix is to make the sniper rifles equal to the same guns whose round they shoot, either by increasing the lethality of machine guns or reducing sniper rifles. I'd encourage increasing damage myself, as I think the game portrays everything but handguns as too wimpy.

[The Grue Master]

The Developers somehow see to think that taking a medium machine gun bullet and shooting it out of a sniper rifle mystically makes it double plus good. Umm, no.

Easy fix is to make the sniper rifles equal to the same guns whose round they shoot, either by increasing the lethality of machine guns or reducing sniper rifles. I'd encourage increasing damage myself, as I think the game portrays everything but handguns as too wimpy.

Yeah, the thing I need to make everyone happy is game rules for a battle rifle. Something with a 15-20 round magazine, 7P+ damage, SA/BF/FA and maybe sport rifle ranges.

[Voran]

I would think the purpose of a weapon is pretty well defined.

Held true in 2nd edition, still holds true today. One of the finest quotes I've ever read. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Hehe, what was it? Something along the lines of a "I thought the general purpose of a machine gun was pretty well known?" or somesuch?

Anyhoo, I think the general premise behind the Sniper rifle rules, which seem pretty much the same over the versions, is that you trade higher damage and penetration/etc for the 'don't use this in normal combat' tradeoff. I mean, i guess it fits with what we 'see'. The SWAT team sniper doesn't usually run with the close quarters pack bringing his death-rod with him. He finds a nice perch, braces his weapon and waits for orders.

On the other hand, something like an M14 variant makes a nice hybrid precision rifle and 'in the heat of battle' rifle.

[The Grue Master]

On the other hand, something like an M14 variant makes a nice hybrid precision rifle and 'in the heat of battle' rifle.

This is exactly what I need, I'm gonna make one up and post it for comments.

[Smokeskin]

Actually, Melee hardenting would do nothing. Sniper Rifles are precision insturments, finely tuned to be fired from a stable position, not as a Assault Rifle or even a hunting rifle. Floating Barrels, specific ammo, etc. So running with one, and firing will throw off that delicate balance, thus...the rule. Melee Hardening might help if you rifle butt someone, but that will still affect the fine calibration of the rifle.

Absolutely not. Sniper rifles are made to be sturdy and not lose their zero. They're a lot heavier and everything is thicker and it is produced with far lower tolerances, giving the parts less room to wiggle around.

Even if there was some mighty fine calibration thingy that got upset, it would only affect extended range shots. It wouldn't suddenly give it worse short range accuracy than an AR.

On top of this I'm fairly certain that even if the zero shifted, 2073 smartlinks automatically rezero the sights.

[Doc Chase]

Hehe, what was it? Something along the lines of a "I thought the general purpose of a machine gun was pretty well known?" or somesuch?

Anyhoo, I think the general premise behind the Sniper rifle rules, which seem pretty much the same over the versions, is that you trade higher damage and penetration/etc for the 'don't use this in normal combat' tradeoff. I mean, i guess it fits with what we 'see'. The SWAT team sniper doesn't usually run with the close quarters pack bringing his death-rod with him. He finds a nice perch, braces his weapon and waits for orders.

On the other hand, something like an M14 variant makes a nice hybrid precision rifle and 'in the heat of battle' rifle.

If they do run with the close-quarters pack, they generally have a PDW or a spotter with said PDW providing cover.

[Smokeskin]

I'm interested in how people generally deal with sniper rifles and their capacity for lethal destruction in their campaigns and what, if any, mods help keep them from breaking in your average runner's gunfight.

I don't let people mod fire rates, and I added a Cumbersome Weapon Rating to all weapons.

Cumbersome weapon rating: Weapons with a CWR applies this as a negative modifier to Initiative Score, unless the weapon is properly braced (lying prone, weapon resting on a low wall, etc.). In confined spaces, like melee combat, firing from inside a car, or leaning out of a window, the GM can choose to apply the CWR as a negative dice pool modifier.

CWR 2: Assault rifles, shotguns, sport rifles
CWR 3: Assault shotguns with ammo drums.
CWR 4: <9DV Sniper rifles, LMGs
CWR 5: 9DV Sniper rifles
CWR 6: Other heavy weapons

[X-Kalibur]

To best emphasize the unwieldy nature of the sniper rifle in close combat, have your players try to play Silent Scope 2 in the arcade. You're talking about a weapon that is all but unconcealable and tends to be highly restricted, so any authority figure is going to bring the hammer down hard on a party of rifle-wielding mooks.

Recall as well, these things are bolt action or semi-auto weapons that could leave them wide open to a countershot after they take their first bead on a tango. But if they really want to traipse around everywhere with a cello case on their back, people are going to start raising eyebrows.

Actually, I used to amaze my friends with free scope shots in Silent Scope 1 and 2 (and the remake of 1). I wouldn't even consider that close to using a smart-link either.

Neither here nor there, I just wanted to toot my own horn.

[Doc Chase]

Actually, I used to amaze my friends with free scope shots in Silent Scope 1 and 2 (and the remake of 1). I wouldn't even consider that close to using a smart-link either.

Neither here nor there, I just wanted to toot my own horn.

Even on that damnedable snowboard level? If so, I tip my hat to you. I hate that level.

[X-Kalibur]

Even on that damnedable snowboard level? If so, I tip my hat to you. I hate that level.

I was always using two eyes to shoot, one on scope and one off, so I learned where the on screen designator was versus my target. I like to think of it as primitive smart-link.

[Dumori]

If siniper rilfe D-zeroed that much theyd be useless. Oh you had to just staired while it was slung you at a -10 mod now form all those bumps.

[Doc Chase]

I was always using two eyes to shoot, one on scope and one off, so I learned where the on screen designator was versus my target. I like to think of it as primitive smart-link.

I would agree. My eyes didn't. But hey, I survived the level.

[Yerameyahu]

Nothing wrong with the RAW for sniper rifles. If absolutely necessary, houserule the hardier Arsenal rifles to act as the MA2100 does.

[Caadium]

This is exactly what I need, I'm gonna make one up and post it for comments.

It might not be what you are looking for, but check out the Steyr-Aug CSL in Augmentation or the HK XM30 in the main book. Neither one is 'optimal' for the roles it coveres, but they do offer pretty on-the-fly versatility.

[The Grue Master]

It might not be what you are looking for, but check out the Steyr-Aug CSL in Augmentation or the HK XM30 in the main book. Neither one is 'optimal' for the roles it coveres, but they do offer pretty on-the-fly versatility.

I'm basically going to craft a single purpose version of the 'rifle' entry from the Steyr-Aug CSL to fill that niche. I'll cross-reference the new post when I make it.

[Yerameyahu]

There are a dozen flexible, general use, high precision rifles in the books. They're called Assault Rifles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In my group, we've added an extra section for Battle Rifles, which are just Sport Rifles with selective fire and military clips. You all know them already: the G3, for example.

[Smokeskin]

There are a dozen flexible, general use, high precision rifles in the books. They're called Assault Rifles. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

In my group, we've added an extra section for Battle Rifles, which are just Sport Rifles with selective fire and military clips. You all know them already: the G3, for example.

The G3 is a fully automatic assault rifle though.

[X-Kalibur]

The G3 is a fully automatic assault rifle though.

Which effectively makes it a sport rifle with a military clip and SA/FA. The distinction is... minimal.