What's the point of melee? Options

[Yerameyahu]

Ugh, let's not do *that*. As if it mattered.

[Grinder]

Yeah. SR and realistic combat don't share much common ground, so let's RL examples ouf ot this discussion (in fact, any discussion about SR combat).

[SaintHax]

Ugh, let's not do *that*. As if it mattered.

Yet, for some reason this whole discussion has left SR completely. It's like a group of pyschopaths stroking their egos (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[StealthSigma]

I'm always reminded of the bit of movie trivia where they were filming Saruman's cut death scene in lord of the rings and Peter Jackson was describing to Christopher Lee what a man stabbed from behind should breath or sound like. Christopher Lee, who was SAS(If i remember correctly) during WW2 informed him that he knew exactly what a man stabbed from behind sounded like.

/nerd off

Except.... I can't find any records indicating that Christopher Lee was in the SAS. I can find records that he was in the RAF though...

--

So how many people have you killed again? With knives?

That's just a tad macabre.

[Grinder]

So how many people have you killed again? With knives?

That's just a tad macabre.

And not relevant for dumpshock.com.

[sabs]

Although Kruger is being all "I R smurtr than u, cuz killing someone for realz iz way diffrnt than in theory!!! lol!!!!"

[Grinder]

No need to bring that up in public, ok? We all know that there's a huge difference between combat as presented in SR (and its rules) and IRL. We also know that a couple of posters have a military background, but it is not relevant to any discussion here at dumpshock.com if and how many people someones has beaten, hurt or even killed IRL.

[Kruger]

Although Kruger is being all "I R smurtr than u, cuz killing someone for realz iz way diffrnt than in theory!!! lol!!!!"

That's not what I was being at all...

I was just commenting about how funny it is for people to discuss the best ways of doing things they've obviously never done.

Of all the topics I have a lot of applicable knowledge on (I'm sorry if I've had a wide range of experience and education?), you'll never find me in any thread commenting on the best ways to kill people or whether or not I've done it. I might discuss the intricacies of firearms marksmanship and practical weapons usage (I was a school trained Marine Corps weapons instructor (and instructor of instructors) for multiple systems), but that's more in the application of practical knowledge for gamers and other enthusiasts. This isn't some kind of "Nyah nyah, I know more than you kind of thing". Maybe I do know more than you. Maybe I don't. I don't know how much you don't know. I do know I'll never brag about anything I know in regards to killing other human beings. But it is pretty easy to spot the fakers, and it is funny, even if in a rather pathetic and sad way. Maybe I just have a morbid sense of humor.

Oh, and Sigma, Lee wasn't SAS. He was apparently Special Operations Executive, and unconventional warfare unit that existed during WW2. I can't confirm or deny that, but that is what he said himself.

[Grinder]

Funny. I thought my posting was clear. And in english.

[sabs]

My apologies Kruger.

Special Operations Executive, isn't that the guys they kept sending into occupied territory and ebhind enemy lines? My grandfather was Maquis. To this day I can't get him to really talk about it (and He's 90 years old) he just closes his eyes and says, "I was just in it so me and grandma would have a way out of occupied france if we needed it." Which, from the things he's accidentally let slip before. Is a complete lie.

I remember reading an article once, written by a writer in the mid 80's who was talking about when he was a junior beat reporter in the 60's. He talked about how the serior reporter was a WW2 combat vet with a silver star, who had been at the Battle of the Bulge, and that for a time, chances were good that a man of a certain age (probably 40's in the 60's) was very likely to be a combat veteran who had seen really serious combat. It was a really interesting article.

[IKerensky]

Well technically it is only more reliable if the persons magic is less than 6. IF my magic is 7 and you put 5.99 worth of essence crap in me I still have 1 magic, which you can eventually up through initiation to 4 or 5 etc. Don't mage cuffs zap you when ever you try to use magic, I can see a implanted version of those, or cells rigged for it. It wont really drop your magic much, but its a kind of permanent way to stop magic.

Nope you wont... Initiation grade is limited to magic attribute rating.

If they lower your magic you wont be able to initiate past 1... wich you already do to reach 7.

Magic 10 Initiate rank 4 that lose 6 points of magic due to essence is down to Magic 4 Initiate rank 4 and no way to up it anymore by initiating.

[sabs]

I still find Essence Drain to be the most broken irritating thing in the game. I'd much rather get killed, than have a character's essence drained. For mages, its' congrats, the GM just permanently handicapped your character. For Sams it's congrats.. You just lost 1/6th or more of your potential.. oh and you're probably dead from 1 touch attack.

[Mayhem_2006]

I still find Essence Drain to be the most broken irritating thing in the game. I'd much rather get killed, than have a character's essence drained. For mages, its' congrats, the GM just permanently handicapped your character. For Sams it's congrats.. You just lost 1/6th or more of your potential.. oh and you're probably dead from 1 touch attack.

As long as its affecting most runners equally, its hardly broken.

TAre there many runners who hit the shadows with neither cyberware or magic?

[StealthSigma]

As long as its affecting most runners equally, its hardly broken.

TAre there many runners who hit the shadows with neither cyberware or magic?

Do you mean runners that have 6 essence and no magic ability or do you mean runners with no magic ability and exclusively utilize bioware/genetech and avoid cyberware/nanotech?

[Mayhem_2006]

Do you mean runners that have 6 essence and no magic ability or do you mean runners with no magic ability and exclusively utilize bioware/genetech and avoid cyberware/nanotech?

I mean runners for whom some essesnce loss would be no big deal, for whatever reason. So those that are not overburdened with installed cyber/bio gear, AND who don't need it for magic.

[Saint Sithney]

Yeah, hacker/riggers. That job has a limited amount of stuff you can cram into your head, and doesn't benefit much from magic > 3.

[CanRay]

My Hacker found a use for Melee.

It's hard to jack a car after you've been blown out of a prison bus when all you have is an orange jumpsuit that says "Property of Lone Star" on your chest and hoop.

[killfr3nzy]

My Hacker found a use for Melee.

It's hard to jack a car after you've been blown out of a prison bus when all you have is an orange jumpsuit that says "Property of Lone Star" on your chest and hoop.

Jump in front of the car and scream "If you hit me they'll sue!"
I always thought legal charges for injuring wageslave's was something around 98% 'Damaging CorpX property' and 2% 'I dunno, he has rights or something..'

[CanRay]

Bubba the Love Troll must have a huge debt piled up then.

Who, come to think of it, is another reason to have Melee skills!

[DocTaotsu]

To prevent getting surprise sexed from behind by Bubba the love troll? Yes, that is in excellent reason to have a melee skill (and shock gloves and a backpack full of freeze foam).

I'd also point out that there will come a time in a game when you might want to punch a dude out for dramatic effect, put them in a headlock, whatever... It isn't quiet as dramatic when you critically glitch your defaulted melee attack and end up slapping yourself or punching like a 6 year old.

[sabs]

Hey! My six year old has a mean right hook

[Warlordtheft]

From what I've seen melee beats ranged in the following situations:

1. Suprise attack from bubba the love troll.
2. Fighting in a confined space, like and 8'X8' cell.
3. Unarmed combat is great since you only need your hands/feet (nothing to hide-suprise!).
4. It is just cool to duke it out Mano a Mano (style).
5. You're out of ammo.

[DocTaotsu]

Personally I've always wanted to see someone build a jiujitsu master grappler character... with hydraulic cyberarms (I think they're called hydraulic jacks but I can't recall). It isn't the fastest way to off someone but it certainly is effective.

[Ascalaphus]

Personally I've always wanted to see someone build a jiujitsu master grappler character... with hydraulic cyberarms (I think they're called hydraulic jacks but I can't recall). It isn't the fastest way to off someone but it certainly is effective.

I was musing about fighting styles specifically geared towards handling people who encase themselves in armor and other common defensive measures. Does grappling subdual damage bypass armor?

[Yerameyahu]

You'd think there'd be new fighting styles *for* people wearing/made of armor. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)