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> Shapeshifter IP, useing example out of GC it seems they get it?
naga-nuyen
post Aug 23 2010, 10:20 PM
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So i have seen this question asked, but i am sure that i have seen no answer. This is the example shifter out of Ghost Cartels. Using this as the example would players also get the IP of 2, and if they do and there an adept does the Improved Reflex power add to this to the Max of four passes?
Thanks for your time and have a good day.


QUOTE
Shapeshifter (Jaguar)
Shapeshifters are rare paracritters with the unique ability of adopting human form. While in human form, they can wear and use human clothes and gear. In animal form they appear as large Awakened versions of their animal relatives and boast all the innate animal abilities. In the Amazon Jaguar and Monkey shift ers are particularly common.
B A R S C I L W M Ess Init IP
5 7 5 5 2 4 4 5 1 6 9 2
Condition Monitor Boxes: 11
Armor (Ballistic/Impact): 8/5*
Skills: Survival 5, Tracking 6, Unarmed Combat 6 (Natural Weapons +2)
Powers: Concealment, Enhanced Senses (Hearing, low light vision, smell), Natural Weapons, Regeneration
Weapons: Claws [unarmed, Reach 0, DV 4, AP –1]
* Only in human form "Page 169 Ghost Cartels"


Also if i post anything like this in the future should i add this to it?

CODE
Copyright© 2008 WizKids Inc. All Rights Reserved. Shadowrun,
Ghost Cartels, Matrix, and WK Games are registered trademarks
and/or trademarks of WizKids, Inc. in the United States and/or
other countries. No part of this work may be reproduced, stored in a
retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means, without
the prior permission in writing of the Copyright Owner, nor be otherwise
circulated in any form other than that in which it is published.
Catalyst Game Labs and the Catalyst Game Labs logo are trademarks
of InMediaRes Productions, LLC. Printed in Canada.
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TheOOB
post Aug 23 2010, 11:40 PM
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Unless I am mistaken shapeshifters do not naturally get extra IP, that said a large percentage of them would be adepts with the increased reflexes power. Not sure about the book example, I see no reason they should have 2 IP.
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Achsin
post Aug 24 2010, 12:07 AM
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The book example displayed there doesn't have a high enough magic for Increased Reflexes. Interesting to note the Concealment Power there as well. . . maybe this example is of an a-typical shapeshifter?
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naga-nuyen
post Aug 24 2010, 12:18 AM
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Sorry i was not clear before; this seems to be a normal non adept Shapeshifter from Ghost cartels, funny i never caught the concealment. So this NPC shifter is rocking two things that player built shifter does not seem to get. No complaints, just wanted to know if this is the way all Jaguar shifters are stated except PC's? If not than would my player's adept power stack with the IP from the race to a max of four, or does he need to take it twice for the second IP?
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 12:23 AM
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Nothing stacks unless it specifically says it does, *especially* for IPs.
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Achsin
post Aug 24 2010, 12:28 AM
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I'd say it does. Increases to IP's don't stack unless stated, but if your base IP is 2, I don't see why it shouldn't.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 12:30 AM
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*shrug*. If you're using a 'sample critter' instead of the chargen, you're already houseruling things.
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Achsin
post Aug 24 2010, 12:39 AM
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I'd stick to chargen for a player character, but I'm not averse to taking the sample critter and using his 2 IP boosted with adept powers to 4 IP for only 2 levels in Increased Reflexes and throw it at the players.
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naga-nuyen
post Aug 24 2010, 12:41 AM
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I agree with Yerameyahu, if they are not supposed to get them in creation than they will not be rocking extra IP's and special powers. It just seems funny that shifters are typed to be the leaders of the respective animal kingdom (well wolf and lion) but they are little less based stated than the normal ones. Now i understand that most of these leader shifters will have improved over time, so the reason why they are leading is that they get better, while there pack mates stay the same!

again thanks for posting your thoughts, and have a nice night!
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 01:09 AM
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You're right that the discrepancy is odd. There's a whole thread about this, I believe… the Shapechange one?
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sabs
post Aug 24 2010, 01:59 AM
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Well, except that this is a JAGUAR that SHIFTS into a Human.
And it says specifically:
In animal form they looks just like their normal animal counterpart and boast all of their innate animal abilities.
So these guys are completely different than a Spell Caster using the Shapechange spell.
Especially given that they semm to lose their 2nd IP when in human form.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 02:02 AM
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*shrug* Perhaps nothing in that other thread is relevant. No skin off my nose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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sabs
post Aug 24 2010, 02:11 AM
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Or it's irritatingly non-consistant. Because they would never ever make non-consistant characters in a Setting Module like Ghost Cartels (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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naga-nuyen
post Aug 24 2010, 03:14 AM
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For this train of thought i am talking about Shapeshifters, and if this is the Norm for what the Jaguar looks like for his stat block. And if he does indeed look like this than why do the PC version lose a little of the stats.

Now i am not worried that they do, the Jaguar is a powerful build in its own right. But I want to know if the IP thing is supposed to be dropped for the PC's, and if each individual shapeshifter gets different powers that are unique to its type and the player does not see these.

Further if that is the case maybe there should be some thoughts of how to give the shifter these options in creation, and will we see the seperate stats for the different shifters?
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 03:19 AM
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I would assume that the rules explaining how to make a shifter character are the rules for making a shifter character. I have no idea where that sample NPC critter got his Concealment, for example. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Assume that people make mistakes constantly in the books; the alternative is that they're secretly hiding rules for Nic Cage to find in bad movies.
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Neraph
post Aug 24 2010, 04:10 AM
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QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Aug 23 2010, 08:02 PM) *
*shrug* Perhaps nothing in that other thread is relevant. No skin off my nose. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

We covered shifters around page 4 IIRC.

It is not uncommon from what I understand to have statblocks from written adventures that do not follow the rules. This is a good example, as is a technomancer somewhere (DotA II?) that had the Biofeedback Complex Form.
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naga-nuyen
post Aug 24 2010, 05:16 AM
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Neraph: There does not seem to be any relevant posts about shapshifters IP, only that there was a post about them being the odd man out.

Yerameyahu: If i am in error of posting this sort of questions of mechanics within these forums than i am sorry. I will never assume the worst of people sir, ever.

Have a good evening runners.
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Neraph
post Aug 24 2010, 05:29 AM
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I figured we covered that since they are not mentioned as having more IPs then the default was 1.
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Megu
post Aug 24 2010, 07:02 AM
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Yeah, it was my last thread you're all thinking of, and the consensus seemed to be that, yes, it is indeed weird that PCs have less IPs than other shifters and animals of the same type, but you can deal with that, as it's the given rules for shapeshifters, or maybe you can convince your GM to give you another IP for 20 BP or so. That's probably how I'd do it, just up all the costs.
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Mäx
post Aug 24 2010, 09:02 AM
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I wouldn't base anythink on NPC stat block from Ghost Cartels, many stat blocks in it have errors and some of the enemies have a nerfed statblock on purpose(ie. the Yama King) it would stand to reason that some of them might have better then normal stat blocks on purpose too.
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 24 2010, 12:53 PM
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naga-nuyen, I didn't say anything about you being in error. I said that you can't trust sample NPCs in books over the real rules. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) It has nothing to do with 'assuming the worst in people', although that's sometimes a prudent position. It didn't work here, though: you assumed I wasn't being benevolent. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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naga-nuyen
post Aug 24 2010, 01:07 PM
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Thank you everyone for your remarks and contributions. I will take GC as a separate example of the critter

Yerameyahu: you are right, and i am sorry. Have a good day Sir (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


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Dahrken
post Aug 26 2010, 04:37 AM
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I'(d say that if their animal has extra IP they get them too, but only when in their natural form, and extra IPs - for exemple from Adept powers - are not cumulative, that is they use the best of the two potions.
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Neraph
post Aug 26 2010, 04:40 AM
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QUOTE (Dahrken @ Aug 25 2010, 11:37 PM) *
I'(d say that if their animal has extra IP they get them too, but only when in their natural form, and extra IPs - for exemple from Adept powers - are not cumulative, that is they use the best of the two potions.

Great... Based on what rule?
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Yerameyahu
post Aug 26 2010, 04:40 AM
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That seems fairest. To say that shifters PCs don't get the 2 IPs of the great cat or whatever penalizes PCs against NPCs, and to say the extra IP stacks is to give a major freebie (*and* possibly allow more IPs than should be possible).

You and your rules, Neraph! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Based on fair, fun, reasonable play. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Rule 0.
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