Misc Questions Combat Rules Options

[Pogo Pete]

Hi to all Dumpshock forumers from a newbie!

I've been busy preparing for an upcoming campaign that I'll be GMing and to assist me in resolving encounters as swiftly as possible I've been coding a GM-tool in Excel that will calculate modifiers for all forms of combat. Since I'm thinking of posting this tool on these forums I want to make sure that I've understood the rules properly.

I have a few questions (and later probably more) about combat situations that the sourcebooks are a bit ambiguous on.

1. Suppressive fire: defender rolls with Reaction + Edge agains Agility + Skill to avoid the hail of bullets. SR4 says that if the target fails the test apply base weapon damage, but the book does not say whether or not the target can try and resist this damage.

2. Subdual/Grapple attack: Book says to resolve melee combat as per usual but does not state if there are any negative attack modifiers for trying to subdue the target without causing harm (much harder in my opinion than just slugging it out). Also no negative modifiers specified for grappling unarmed or with a weapon in one hand (the latter should also incur a negative mod).

3. Knockdown attack: basically same as above, no modifiers?

Thanks in advance.

[itaipee]

1. Suppressive fire: defender rolls with Reaction + Edge agains Agility + Skill to avoid the hail of bullets. SR4 says that if the target fails the test apply base weapon damage, but the book does not say whether or not the target can try and resist this damage.

1.1 : Reaction + Edge - only if the defender use edge ( which he can use only "Egde" times in an advanture

1.2 : if defender use full defence , its reaction + dodge

1.3: every time the defender was hit by melee or ranged attact - he makes damage resistance test ( basicly its body+armor - to reduce basic attack damage + nets hits)

By the way - if damage before "damage resist reduction" is lower then target armore - then the damage is stun damage ( like you got shot in your body armor, it will not wound you but it can knock you out )

[Summerstorm]

Don't listen to him.

1. It is Reaction+ Edge. You don't have to spent edge on it... it just checks your "luck" in that roll. YES there are EDGE- tests in this game. Oh and yes. resisting is of course possible.

[Pogo Pete]

Thanks to both of your replies.

Summerstorm, yes that is what I thought also. Normally success tests in the sourcebooks do not mention the Edge attribute as it is usually an optional variable depending on availability. But evade suppressive fire explicitly lists Reaction+Edge so I was wondering if there are instances where the Edge score is an automatic inclusion in the required test, which you have just confirmed, thanks!

Any ideas about negative modifiers for grappling/knock-down, grappling while holding a melee weapon or attempting a knock-down while holding a bladed weapon? Or should that be GM's discretion?

[Summerstorm]

Ah well. About the Knock-down and stuff:

Page 161 SR4A it describes the knockdown in melee (You say you don't want any damage and after your attack you just need to have more Strength+Net Hits than the foes has Body to take him down. He cannot resist that anymore after the normal defense)

If you are prone (on the ground) you get -2 dice to fight someone standing (he gets even +3 dice).

But of course there are some maneuvers of interest (Look up the Arsenal for better detailed melee-rules).

For example the good old Clinch Maneuver (Negates all reach and both combatants cannot leave without spending an complex action and succeeding on a roll. Possible on the ground too.
Or Ground Fighting for negating the disadvantege of being prone. You will find the maneuvres around page 159, Arsenal.

Hm Grappling while holding a melee-weapon... that is gm territory, i guess. Some weapons may aid you, many will likely hinder you or even make grappling impossible.

[Catadmin]

Hm Grappling while holding a melee-weapon... that is gm territory, i guess. Some weapons may aid you, many will likely hinder you or even make grappling impossible.

I would say this is more than GM territory. It depends on what is currently happening in the scene. For instance, if the grappling has both NPC and PC with both hands on both ends of a rifle, I would treat the rifle more as a useless club that's being fought over. Of course, the players would probably also have to make an agility roll to not turn off the safety or accidentally pull the trigger during the scuffle (unless it's smart-linked). But if the scuffle is happening true soap-opera style with both characters' hands near the trigger side of the gun, that gun's gonna go off.

And again, if the PC is grabbing the NPC around the shoulders instead of fighting over the weapon, (or vice versa) than the person holding the weapon (weapon-dependent, of course) has a even better chance of going off.

So, in my mind, the players hold some responsibility for what's going to happen during grappling because usually the players set the scene in such a situation. Then the GM makes the call based on that.

[Pogo Pete]

Thanks again everyone, that's some useful information.

Next questions relate to attacking through barrier/blindfiring/defender has cover and whether or not these modifiers are cumulative.

Situation1.
Attacker fires at a Defender who is partially shielded by a tree, but standing still as he returns fire.
Solution: Defender has Partial Cover, +2

Situation 2.
Attacker fires at a Defender who is ducking in and out of cover behind a tree as he returns fire.
Solution: Defender has Partial Cover, +2, Running +2, Firing from Cover -2

The above 2 solutions would make it just as easy to hit a ducking defender as one who is holding his ground which I think needs some tweaking.

Situation 3.
Attacker fires at a Defender who stays put and is completely obscured by a tree which is not that much wider than the Defender.
Solution: Defender has Good Cover, +4 and barrier armor +4, no modifiers for the Attacker since he only has to aim dead center on the tree trunk.

Situation 4.
Attacker fires at a Defender who stays put and is completely obscured by a tree which is many times wider than the Defender.
Solution: Defender has Good Cover, +4 and barrier armor +4, and the Attacker has to Blind Fire -6 to try and hit his mark.

Am I barking up the right tree?

[Catadmin]

Next questions relate to attacking through barrier/blindfiring/defender has cover and whether or not these modifiers are cumulative.

...

Situation 2.
Attacker fires at a Defender who is ducking in and out of cover behind a tree as he returns fire.
Solution: Defender has Partial Cover, +2, Running +2, Firing from Cover -2

The above 2 solutions would make it just as easy to hit a ducking defender as one who is holding his ground which I think needs some tweaking.

Yeah, I don't know about this one. I would apply negative modifiers to a Defender who's running back and forth. He can't take the time to aim if he's doing that. Even if he has cybermods / smartlink, I'd still not give him partial cover unless, by the time the Attacker's turn comes up, he's actually managed to get behind his cover. Additionally, I'd be doing agility checks to make sure Defender manages not to trip over something stupid.

Of course, that really depends on how much of a twink the Defender is. If it's a player that hasn't caused trouble for me as a GM, I'd be lenient. If it was a power-gamer / rules lawyer, I'd be pretty harsh. And if it's an NPC, well, it depends on how much of a hand the players need in wining this particular battle.

Situation 3.
Attacker fires at a Defender who stays put and is completely obscured by a tree which is not that much wider than the Defender.
Solution: Defender has Good Cover, +4 and barrier armor +4

Depends on the tree type and the Attacker's ammo type. A grenade is going to shred that tree. Balsa and pine trees are soft wood, likely to ablate and splinter apart under fire while oak and walnut are fairly hard wood and likely to catch smaller rounds.

And what happens if the Attacker has a flame thrower?

I would say this one has no hard and fast answer. You have to be flexible enough to modify on the fly depending on the combat circumstances, and don't stick to one hard and fast rule. Modifiers can be cumulative, yes. But some GMs prefer to pick the highest modifier out of a group and stick with that because the math's easier.

[Pogo Pete]

You have to be flexible enough to modify on the fly depending on the combat circumstances, and don't stick to one hard and fast rule. Modifiers can be cumulative, yes. But some GMs prefer to pick the highest modifier out of a group and stick with that because the math's easier.

Yeah I have to agree with that one.
Like being shot with double aught buck (+5AP) from behind a plate glass window (1 barrier armor) should somehow give the defender a +6 Armor Bonus! YIKES!